Not a great move by the Flyers at all. Anybody whose watch CBJ last few years knew he was on decline and falling fast. When CBJ is contemplating a buyout then you really suck. Because its not like a major market with money to throw around. Great trade by CBJ Essentially trading for a 50pt player for Umberger who at times was healthy scratch to only getting 3rd and 4th line minutes.

Was Hartnell really THAT good the last two years? Pretty much played top line minutes with a franchise center and first PP unit. It looks to me that they wanted Hartnell out of the locker room. Also, I believe the league view of Hartnell was pretty much seen by the return from Columbus. I'm pretty confident Hartnell would have waived to other contenders beside the Jackets. I'm sure this is the best deal Hexy could have gotten for him.

I'm glad the organization will rely more on Read, Coots, and B. Schenn to take on more scoring responsibilities.
- ravishingone

Being a 20 goal scorer and 50-point getter, that is good. You can still produce in the right situation.

Well, one way to do it is to play better team defense and not be short-handed with the types of penalties Hartnell would take from time to time

You can skin this cat a few different ways
- AllInForFlyers

His -1 PD just killed us last year.

Remember when we traded Talbot to Colorado for Downie? There are comparisons to be drawn between that trade and this one. People said, almost unanimously, that we were getting the better player. At the same time, people valued that Colorado was getting the more disciplined player with the better two-way game and stronger leadership. Because of this, people still recognized that Colorado was getting better, despite giving up some points in a player who had 9 points in 10 or 11 games at that point in Downie. I think it's similar here, despite both players being strong leaders. Two-way play and discipline isn't as pretty or exciting as bashing heads and scoring goals, but it's arguably more important to winning games.
- JAKEw1234

Except, until he got the concussion in November, Downie was a perfect fit for the line with Couturier & Read and was a huge catalyst for the Flyers.

And if Umberger is brutal, what is his buyout after next season? As opposed to Hartnell's if we are asking the same question in two years?

At some point, you just have to take the risk and manage the cap based on how you can balance the roster and move guys off the roster
- AllInForFlyers

i don't know what the buyout is, and i'm not even looking at that. i see this is a win on paper for now. we'lll see how it shakes out.

sometimes players have a downturn - age, injuries, poopty team, all of it, a mix...whatever. it's entirely possible, RJ rebounds and contributes. it's not like we're losing a 100 pt, 45 goal scorer in hartnell for a stonehanded hack. i like RJ's versatility and more responsible play. i think the flyers can absorb a slight loss of offense and make up for it on the back end.

everyone said steve mason sucks and was a bad move and was finished, blah, blah, blah. yeah, well, he doesn't and he isn't. we'll just have to wait and see with RJ.

We have time to revisit this deal, certainly.

If Hartnell kills it for Columbus, we're gonna know it. But it's just not a given that is gonna happen, and with the way the game is played now, I think Hextall might have done better for the Flyers than is readily apparent

Look,at Clowe and Clarkson. When it goes, it's gone

Umberger with Voracek and G scores 25+ goals easy.
- jstross

Oh really? Now that you say that I am completely fine with this deal. I forgot he was a third line player on Columbus and probably will be here too.

i don't know what the buyout is, and i'm not even looking at that. i see this is a win on paper for now. we'lll see how it shakes out.

sometimes players have a downturn - age, injuries, poopty team, all of it, a mix...whatever. it's entirely possible, RJ rebounds and contributes. it's not like we're losing a 100 pt, 45 goal scorer in hartnell for a stonehanded hack. i like RJ's versatility and more responsible play. i think the flyers can absorb a slight loss of offense and make up for it on the back end.

everyone said steve mason sucks and was a bad move and was finished, blah, blah, blah. yeah, well, he doesn't and he isn't. we'll just have to wait and see with RJ.
- hammarby31

Exactly -- bottom line, they still gotta play

We have time to revisit this deal, certainly.

If Hartnell kills it for Columbus, we're gonna know it. But it's just not a given that is gonna happen, and with the way the game is played now, I think Hextall might have done better for the Flyers than is readily apparent

Look,at Clowe and Clarkson. When it goes, it's gone
- AllInForFlyers

and even if he does kill it in columbus doesn't mean he would have done so here. different team, different line mates, different everything.

Except, until he got the concussion in November, Downie was a perfect fit for the line with Couturier & Read and was a huge catalyst for the Flyers.
- Jsaquella

CAPGEEK.COM ARMCHAIR GM ROSTER
CapGeek Armchair GM Roster
FORWARDS
Matt Moulson ($4.250m) / Claude Giroux ($8.275m) / Jakub Voracek ($4.250m)
Matt Read ($3.625m) / Sean Couturier ($1.750m) / Wayne Simmonds ($3.975m)
R.J. Umberger ($4.600m) / Scott Laughton ($0.863m) / Jason Akeson ($0.750m)
Pierre-Edouard Bellemare ($0.600m) / Brian Boyle ($1.850m) / Michael Raffl ($1.100m)
Zac Rinaldo ($0.750m)
DEFENSEMEN
Braydon Coburn ($4.500m) / Luke Schenn ($3.600m)
Kimmo Timonen ($2.000m) / Zach Bogosian ($5.143m)
Mark Streit ($5.250m) / Mark Alt ($0.782m)
Chris Pronger ($4.941m) / Oliver Lauridsen ($0.600m)
GOALTENDERS
Steve Mason ($4.100m)
Ray Emery ($1.200m)
BUYOUTS
Daniel Briere ($0.000m)
Ilya Bryzgalov ($0.000m)
RETAINED SALARIES (1.27% of upper limit)
Vincent Lecavalier ($0.900m—20.00%)
BONUS OVERAGE
$345,000
------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(estimations for 2014-15)
SALARY CAP: $71,100,000; CAP PAYROLL: $69,999,286; BONUSES: $1,830,833
CAP SPACE (23-man roster): $1,100,714

So, we trade AMac and B. Schenn for Bogosian
we trade Grossmann for picks
we trade VL for picks and retain 20% of the contract/cap hit
and
we sign Moulson to play with G and Jake. Yeah, I know, but he has shown an ability to succeed when he plays with a world class center. We also re-sign Emery and sign UFA Brian Boyle.

And finally, if and when more cap room is needed, we can still put Pronger on LTIR.

and even if he does kill it in columbus doesn't mean he would have done so here. different team, different line mates, different everything.
- hammarby31

If he puts up 20 goals and 50 points again, I think it is safe to assume he is just a good hockey player still.

Being a 20 goal scorer and 50-point getter, that is good. You can still produce in the right situation.
- SuperSchennBros

A 20 goal scorer with a Hart Finalist at center and a RW who continually gets better. I didn't see that much of Hartnell against the Rangers to get excited about. I have no problem elevating Read, B. Schenn, or Coots to assume a more significant role in scoring.

Hartnell has to play in a top 6 role to be effective. Obviously, you can see he is starting to slow down. I would have not seen Umberger in the deal, but I'm pretty sure Columbus wanted him in the deal for a guy who is in decline with 5 more years left on his deal. I would much rather see more of Matt Read in top 6 role who was a 20+ goal scorer with a lot less PP time, then Scott Hartnell. This is about giving the young guys more responsibility, IMO.

Oh really? Now that you say that I am completely fine with this deal. I forgot he was a third line player on Columbus and probably will be here too.
- FlyersSteve118

18 goals on the 3rd line isn't bad at all. Pretty good in fact.

Oh really? Now that you say that I am completely fine with this deal. I forgot he was a third line player on Columbus and probably will be here too.
- FlyersSteve118

i think if you put umberger on the first line you will likely run into a lot of the same problems that hartnell presented.

My take on this trade... I like it as long as hexy moves all 30+ contracts in next few years. Vinny, coburn, Amac, or streit. I think he realizes it's a young mans game and his first move is to get rid of those type contracts. It's really hard now to do it because probably going to have to take a umberger type back. It's basically a 2-3 year project. Umberger gone by then. Schenn, couts, morin, ghost, checky, simmer, hagg, Laughton, coming into their own by then. Plus whatever we draft in next few years. Now if we trade for or get ufa in their 30s for like 5year term 5-6 mil a year I will be scratching my head.
- Sms401

Forget a team that has won anything, has there even been an NHL team in the past 10 years without a 30+ player on it?

CAPGEEK.COM ARMCHAIR GM ROSTER
CapGeek Armchair GM Roster
FORWARDS
Matt Moulson ($4.250m) / Claude Giroux ($8.275m) / Jakub Voracek ($4.250m)
Matt Read ($3.625m) / Sean Couturier ($1.750m) / Wayne Simmonds ($3.975m)
R.J. Umberger ($4.600m) / Scott Laughton ($0.863m) / Jason Akeson ($0.750m)
Pierre-Edouard Bellemare ($0.600m) / Brian Boyle ($1.850m) / Michael Raffl ($1.100m)
Zac Rinaldo ($0.750m)
DEFENSEMEN
Braydon Coburn ($4.500m) / Luke Schenn ($3.600m)
Kimmo Timonen ($2.000m) / Zach Bogosian ($5.143m)
Mark Streit ($5.250m) / Mark Alt ($0.782m)
Chris Pronger ($4.941m) / Oliver Lauridsen ($0.600m)
GOALTENDERS
Steve Mason ($4.100m)
Ray Emery ($1.200m)
BUYOUTS
Daniel Briere ($0.000m)
Ilya Bryzgalov ($0.000m)
RETAINED SALARIES (1.27% of upper limit)
Vincent Lecavalier ($0.900m—20.00%)
BONUS OVERAGE
$345,000
------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(estimations for 2014-15)
SALARY CAP: $71,100,000; CAP PAYROLL: $69,999,286; BONUSES: $1,830,833
CAP SPACE (23-man roster): $1,100,714

So, we trade AMac and B. Schenn for Bogosian
we trade Grossmann for picks
we trade VL for picks and retain 20% of the contract/cap hit
and
we sign Moulson to play with G and Jake. Yeah, I know, but he has shown an ability to succeed when he plays with a world class center. We also re-sign Emery and sign UFA Brian Boyle.

And finally, if and when more cap room is needed, we can still put Pronger on LTIR.
- BiggE

I like this i just think Moulson get at least 6mil. And Brian Boyle was rumored to be looking for a 3rd line center position somewhere.

Let's be honest. Hextall would've taken more in a trade to a team Hartnell would waive his no trade for. He took the best offer he could get. I can live with it.

I hate this deal. I don't hate Hartnell or Umberger. I think they are good players, but Hartnell is worth a lot more than Umberger. Not just a 4th round pick in a crappy draft year better. This was a fleecing, even if RJ turns out to be a better player for us than Hartnell, we got robbed because Hartnell's stock is way higher than RJ's right now. I find it difficult to believe that there were not better options or deals out there to move Hartsy. A 20-30 goal scoring power forward that plays with a phyiscal edge, misses very few games and has proven durability. For an overpaid role player who was probably on the cusp of being bought out? If Hexy wanted Umberger, we only had to wait for the inevitable buyout and then sign him for nothing. Forget the 4th round pick, get Columbus to take half or RJ's salary and I call that deal a win. Hartsy for RJ at 2.3mil for 3 years? WIN. Or how about give us the rights to Nikita Niktin along with the pick? Columbus isn't signing him, we'll take that deal. The issue to me is not what we got, it is I believe we could have gotten way more. I feel like we sold ourselves short and got pwned.

Regardless of how this shakes out, I feel we left money on the table...

i think if you put umberger on the first line you will likely run into a lot of the same problems that hartnell presented.
- stayinthefnnet

I would put him on the 3rd line and move read up. However, let's see if he's healthier this year. Next long contract to dump is VL.

Greg Wyshynski ‏@wyshynski 13s

Hartnell: I waived no-move after Hexy "hummed and hawed" about his role on Flyers. "I was upset, a little angry."

Dave Isaac ‏@davegisaac 2m

#Flyers approached Hartnell with the trade. He didn’t ask to be traded.

I hate this deal. I don't hate Hartnell or Umberger. I think they are good players, but Hartnell is worth a lot more than Umberger. Not just a 4th round pick in a crappy draft year better. This was a fleecing, even if RJ turns out to be a better player for us than Hartnell, we got robbed because Hartnell's stock is way higher than RJ's right now. I find it difficult to believe that there were not better options or deals out there to move Hartsy. A 20-30 goal scoring power forward that plays with a phyiscal edge, misses very few games and has proven durability. For an overpaid role player who was probably on the cusp of being bought out? If Hexy wanted Umberger, we only had to wait for the inevitable buyout and then sign him for nothing. Forget the 4th round pick, get Columbus to take half or RJ's salary and I call that deal a win. Hartsy for RJ at 2.3mil for 3 years? WIN. Or how about give us the rights to Nikita Niktin along with the pick? Columbus isn't signing him, we'll take that deal. The issue to me is not what we got, it is I believe we could have gotten way more. I feel like we sold ourselves short and got pwned.

Regardless of how this shakes out, I feel we left money on the table...
- flyler

The pick is from next year, so its a good draft.

I hate this deal. I don't hate Hartnell or Umberger. I think they are good players, but Hartnell is worth a lot more than Umberger. Not just a 4th round pick in a crappy draft year better. This was a fleecing, even if RJ turns out to be a better player for us than Hartnell, we got robbed because Hartnell's stock is way higher than RJ's right now. I find it difficult to believe that there were not better options or deals out there to move Hartsy. A 20-30 goal scoring power forward that plays with a phyiscal edge, misses very few games and has proven durability. For an overpaid role player who was probably on the cusp of being bought out? If Hexy wanted Umberger, we only had to wait for the inevitable buyout and then sign him for nothing. Forget the 4th round pick, get Columbus to take half or RJ's salary and I call that deal a win. Hartsy for RJ at 2.3mil for 3 years? WIN. Or how about give us the rights to Nikita Niktin along with the pick? Columbus isn't signing him, we'll take that deal. The issue to me is not what we got, it is I believe we could have gotten way more. I feel like we sold ourselves short and got pwned. regardless of how this shakes out, I feel we left money on the table...
- flyler

You don't think Hextall tried?

Greg Wyshynski ‏@wyshynski 13s

Hartnell: I waived no-move after Hexy "hummed and hawed" about his role on Flyers. "I was upset, a little angry."
- Jsaquella

I think Hexy might be granting your Matt Read request to play a more offensive role.

Greg Wyshynski ‏@wyshynski 13s

Hartnell: I waived no-move after Hexy "hummed and hawed" about his role on Flyers. "I was upset, a little angry."
- Jsaquella

I don't think Hartnell is a good fit and seems Hextall felt the same way.