So your saying no power forward has ever made it to age 37 and kept a 20 goal pace up?
- FlyersSteve118

There was that one guy, but for the life of me I can't remember his name...

I agree that would have been the ideal perfect scenario, but they weren't going to find a team to take on that contract without giving up another bad contract. We just have different views on the player. You see Hartnell as still a really solid player teams value and want and would give up a draft pick just to acquire. I see a decent player, who maybe has 2 years of 20 goal hockey in him, has a terrible contract, and was borderline unmoveable. I'm not THRILLED with the deal, I just see it as a wash for the most part. RJ isn't 40 years old. He's only 32 and its not out of the realm a change of scenery could have him bounce back to a 20/50pt guy
- FlyerAdam30

I see your point, but there is more to worry about a player coming off a multiple injuries (some age related) and HOPE and pray that he returns to form, than to worry about a player who had a solid 20 goal 50 point season missing almost no time due to injury.

I would rather the Flyers only get the 4th rounder and not be stuck with Umberger. If they wanted to give him away they shouldn't have taken back an awful contract in return. We trade a 1st line (decent first liner, great second liner) player for worse than nothing!
- FlyersSteve118

This idea that Umberger has no value is silly. I think he will be very good on the Couturier line.

Greg Wyshynski ‏@wyshynski 2m

Hartnell on trade to Columbus: “I’m not gonna sit here for next 2 months and mope around.” #JeffCarter #JeffCarter #JeffCarter #JeffCarter

A 5 year contract for a 3 year contract, but the 3 year contract is a player who is significantly more "aged" (age related injury issues) than the 5 year contract.

So you really believe its a worse contract when you know there is still 2 more productive years out of Hartnell before he turns into what Umberger is now?

Pretty much traded 2 years of production away just to acquire a player who makes us weaker.
- FlyersSteve118

Yes. If Hartnell does become what Umberger is in two years, he'd be absolutely unmoveable.

Also, for how horrific Umberger is, he had two fewer goals in the last two years than Hartnell...and last I checked, Columbus didn't have him playing with Giroux and Voracek most of the time.

In terms of strict production, over the last two seasons, Hartnell has outscored Umberger by 2 goals. Two more goals, while playing with Giroux and Voracek most of the time and as a first unit PP guy.

My worry lies with the advanced stats & injuries. Hartnell does benefit there from playing with Giroux and Voracek, but he also posted good numbers away from them. Umberger's are uniformly worse. Of course, he's playing a third line role and doing more defensive zone starts than Hartnell, so it does balance a bit.

The injuries are a worry. No question.

It doesn't matter how many teams were interested in him. It only matters that we were interested in him. Different teams have different needs, and he just isn't the kind of big name player that a bunch of different teams come breaking down the door to get. He is a fit on our team though, and he's another Swiss army knife-type like Read and Raffl are and hopefully Bellemare will be. As of now the makeup of our forward corp is very strong down the middle, and very versatile down the wings. That's definitely not a bad thing.
- JAKEw1234

It does matter for trade value 100 percent. Basic economic principle. But I get your other points and I truly hope you are right. At the end of the day I just hope, like you, it makes the team better. I'm out but have a great day everyone. Thanks for the good hockey talk and letting me vent.

I said AND history shows. All I have to do is watch him play. I see a player who has slown down, dissappears for games and games, doesnt show the same forechecking tanacity he did 2-3 years ago. Has little injuries here and there. AND history shows....etc.

Clearly you think he's still fantasic so were just not going to agree and thats fine.
- FlyerAdam30

I don't think he is fantastic. I get annoyed at him at times. I just do not think he is a complete albatross and has value still. And you don't trade someone who is worth ~something~ for a potential negative value.

It is funny that everyone wants the Flyers to start planning for the future instead of WIN NOW and now that they actually did it people are like" wait, no!!!!"
- J35Bacher

You've caught on to that huh?

Well, there you go -- the GM wanted to make the ove, it appears.

I think if we can get bludgeoned repeatedly about how the Kings won the Cup and Hextall was a part of that, and he's the GM now, then seeing how it plays out is what has to happen
- AllInForFlyers

So Hextall WANTED to get RJ Umberger at $4.6M for 3 years.

That makes me feel much better.

Potential of ware and tear for a guy that is broken. RJ is seriously injured.
- coffee junkie

No, he isn't. They wouldn't have traded for him if he hadn't recovered from his injuries.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nJNQPYHIBTw

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i9TFa9U6mnE

Some nice videos of Umberger to offset the Campbell one.

You've caught on to that huh?

- MJL

Let's trade G for McDavid in the off season next year. Problem solved.

Also find this trade to be a bit odd, but Umberger does fit into Berube's system better than Hartnell.

Personally I hope this gives Matt Read a chance to take the top LW spot. Dude is a finisher with a nice shot. I think he could hit 30 goals if given extended time with G and Jake.

Let's trade G for McDavid in the off season next year. Problem solved.
- FlyersSteve118

Gotta get value for these veterans while you still can.

I honestly do not believe it is that simple -- there are no deals like that out there for a 32-year-old PF with five years left on his contract with an NMC

That deal isn't there. Not for a first or a second. It's just not there.

If we go back and look at the deals made since the lockout ended, we're gonna find that deal isn't there
- AllInForFlyers

I have to believe this to be the case. Before you jump in the pool, yuo dip your toes in to test the water. I have to assume that Hextall "dipped his toes in the pool"

Brayden Schenn signs multi year extension

http://flyers.nhl.com/club/news.htm?id=723543

Comparing the Corsi of a guy who played most of the season with Giroux and Voracek with the Corsi of a guy who was on the BJ's checking line is terrible analysis.
- Feanor

Fine, then why are we trading a first line LW for a checking line player making the same money... oh yeah and there is a huge numbers disparity...

Comparing the numbers of guys who play with different levels of players might be terrible, but so is ignoring the fact that they have to earn those line positions. And then recognizing that they are paid the same.

Just got back from work.

Whats the vibe boys?

Seems like they traded him to just clear salary getting very little in return.

Don't a fan really. I wanted Hartnell off, or would have been okay with him off of the team, but for so little...

Brayden Schenn signs multi year extension

http://flyers.nhl.com/club/news.htm?id=723543
- Jsaquella

numbers?

Fine, then why are we trading a first line LW for a checking line player making the same money... oh yeah and there is a huge numbers disparity...

Comparing the numbers of guys who play with different levels of players might be terrible, but so is ignoring the fact that they have to earn those line positions. And then recognizing that they are paid the same.
- flyler

Hartnell played the first line, partly, because he didn't do much when used elsewhere.

http://flyers.nhl.com/club/news.htm?id=723543


Baby Schenn extended.

So Hextall WANTED to get RJ Umberger at $4.6M for 3 years.

That makes me feel much better.
- jmatchett383

now that i would have a problem with.

Also find this trade to be a bit odd, but Umberger does fit into Berube's system better than Hartnell.

Personally I hope this gives Matt Read a chance to take the top LW spot. Dude is a finisher with a nice shot. I think he could hit 30 goals if given extended time with G and Jake.
- mcefalu

I like Read too. But I really liked him with Coots. I feel Giroux needs more balanced scoring threats on other lines to help take the pressure off of him. That third line is tight, I don't want to mess with it too much.

http://flyers.nhl.com/club/news.htm?id=723543


Baby Schenn extended.
- MBFlyerfan

Schenn and Hartnell don't get along. Makes perfect sense now.

Not a great move by the Flyers at all. Anybody whose watch CBJ last few years knew he was on decline and falling fast. When CBJ is contemplating a buyout then you really suck. Because its not like a major market with money to throw around. Great trade by CBJ Essentially trading for a 50pt player for Umberger who at times was healthy scratch to only getting 3rd and 4th line minutes.
- 215mike

You know what does happen sometimes with players in their early 30's. They have a few bad years due to a variety of reasons, and then they bounce back. And find their game again. Not saying that is a definite here, but let's not jump the gun with the Umberger sucks talk.