If it wasn't posted

Scott Hartnell says he was forced out of Philadelphia

http://sports.yahoo.com/b...iladelphia-223254051.html
- ob18

It's not a surprise. He was a Lavi guy and Berube came in with an entirely different plan. Hartnell thrives under chaos and Berube has a young core that he's trying to teach how to play the game the right way.

Unbalanced story -- understand Hartnell's point of view, and he was quoted liberally, but you gotta put the Flyers POV in there at some point, and not just through Hartnell's perspective
- AllInForFlyers

It's a link to Hartnell's reaction. I'm sure if there was a website of both sides, ob18 would have posted it.

Probably not, just know I don't want him.
- ob18

Goldobin is definitely the kind of prospect the Flyers don't have right now. I am very intrigued by his skill set. It seem Russian winger means in Canadian junior hockey "lazy back checker".

Goldobin is definitely the kind of prospect the Flyers don't have right now. I am very intrigued by his skill set. It seem Russian winger means in Canadian junior hockey "lazy back checker".

- ravishingone

He and Barbashev don't seem to have that normal Russian stereo type with wanting to come over to play the game in North America.

This weekend should be fun.

I don't buy a single word of this.
- SuperSchennBros

A good portion of the post was fact based but ok

I think it boils down to a few things. First, Hextall wants to put his stamp on the team. He wants dedication and smart play. He wants versatility and guys that can play two way hockey and skate well. Second he's sending a message that discipline is going to be important. Not just penalty avoidance, but showing up in shape and playing in the system.

The key for the Flyers moving forward is going to be guys that can play two way hockey and do it in the system. Hartnell basically has to be used in a first line role, or otherwise he's useless. Umberger, despite his decline, can play effectively in a checking line role.

I'm still not overjoyed at the trade, but I see the thought process that is there. I can agree with it. The benefit of losing the last two years of Hartnell's deal are not a small thing. First, Umberger with 2 years left is probably easier to trade than Hartnell with 4. Also, if Umberger does really not have much left, he's an easier buyout than Hartnell.

But the bottom line here is that Hextall seems to be targeting better skating, more disciplined, two way players.

I think it boils down to a few things. First, Hextall wants to put his stamp on the team. He wants dedication and smart play. He wants versatility and guys that can play two way hockey and skate well. Second he's sending a message that discipline is going to be important. Not just penalty avoidance, but showing up in shape and playing in the system.

The key for the Flyers moving forward is going to be guys that can play two way hockey and do it in the system. Hartnell basically has to be used in a first line role, or otherwise he's useless. Umberger, despite his decline, can play effectively in a checking line role.

I'm still not overjoyed at the trade, but I see the thought process that is there. I can agree with it. The benefit of losing the last two years of Hartnell's deal are not a small thing. First, Umberger with 2 years left is probably easier to trade than Hartnell with 4. Also, if Umberger does really not have much left, he's an easier buyout than Hartnell.

But the bottom line here is that Hextall seems to be targeting better skating, more disciplined, two way players.
- Jsaquella

Also if he sticks with a similar draft pattern as he was part of in LA expect plenty of players from the 3 major junior leagues.

I think it boils down to a few things. First, Hextall wants to put his stamp on the team. He wants dedication and smart play. He wants versatility and guys that can play two way hockey and skate well. Second he's sending a message that discipline is going to be important. Not just penalty avoidance, but showing up in shape and playing in the system.

The key for the Flyers moving forward is going to be guys that can play two way hockey and do it in the system. Hartnell basically has to be used in a first line role, or otherwise he's useless. Umberger, despite his decline, can play effectively in a checking line role.

I'm still not overjoyed at the trade, but I see the thought process that is there. I can agree with it. The benefit of losing the last two years of Hartnell's deal are not a small thing. First, Umberger with 2 years left is probably easier to trade than Hartnell with 4. Also, if Umberger does really not have much left, he's an easier buyout than Hartnell.

But the bottom line here is that Hextall seems to be targeting better skating, more disciplined, two way players.
- Jsaquella

Hextall did specifically say that Umberger is a better skater than Hartnell. Is he talking about speed or the ability to stay on his skates? I can't remember Umberger having great speed, but I could be wrong.

I think it boils down to a few things. First, Hextall wants to put his stamp on the team. He wants dedication and smart play. He wants versatility and guys that can play two way hockey and skate well. Second he's sending a message that discipline is going to be important. Not just penalty avoidance, but showing up in shape and playing in the system.

The key for the Flyers moving forward is going to be guys that can play two way hockey and do it in the system. Hartnell basically has to be used in a first line role, or otherwise he's useless. Umberger, despite his decline, can play effectively in a checking line role.

I'm still not overjoyed at the trade, but I see the thought process that is there. I can agree with it. The benefit of losing the last two years of Hartnell's deal are not a small thing. First, Umberger with 2 years left is probably easier to trade than Hartnell with 4. Also, if Umberger does really not have much left, he's an easier buyout than Hartnell.

But the bottom line here is that Hextall seems to be targeting better skating, more disciplined, two way players.
- Jsaquella

Agree 100% with this

I think it boils down to a few things. First, Hextall wants to put his stamp on the team. He wants dedication and smart play. He wants versatility and guys that can play two way hockey and skate well. Second he's sending a message that discipline is going to be important. Not just penalty avoidance, but showing up in shape and playing in the system.

The key for the Flyers moving forward is going to be guys that can play two way hockey and do it in the system. Hartnell basically has to be used in a first line role, or otherwise he's useless. Umberger, despite his decline, can play effectively in a checking line role.

I'm still not overjoyed at the trade, but I see the thought process that is there. I can agree with it. The benefit of losing the last two years of Hartnell's deal are not a small thing. First, Umberger with 2 years left is probably easier to trade than Hartnell with 4. Also, if Umberger does really not have much left, he's an easier buyout than Hartnell.

But the bottom line here is that Hextall seems to be targeting better skating, more disciplined, two way players.
- Jsaquella

And dedicating to youth. The timing of Schenn's extension seems to imply that he wanted to know his role going forward before signing.

Hextall did specifically say that Umberger is a better skater than Hartnell. Is he talking about speed or the ability to stay on his skates? I can't remember Umberger having great speed, but I could be wrong.
- ManCity

He's a bit steadier, turns better and has better balance than Hartnell, but more importantly Umberger plays a more positionally sound game.

Hextall did specifically say that Umberger is a better skater than Hartnell. Is he talking about speed or the ability to stay on his skates? I can't remember Umberger having great speed, but I could be wrong.
- ManCity

I would say both. He isn't a speedster by any means but he's much cleaner than Hartnell.

I think it boils down to a few things. First, Hextall wants to put his stamp on the team. He wants dedication and smart play. He wants versatility and guys that can play two way hockey and skate well. Second he's sending a message that discipline is going to be important. Not just penalty avoidance, but showing up in shape and playing in the system.

The key for the Flyers moving forward is going to be guys that can play two way hockey and do it in the system. Hartnell basically has to be used in a first line role, or otherwise he's useless. Umberger, despite his decline, can play effectively in a checking line role.

I'm still not overjoyed at the trade, but I see the thought process that is there. I can agree with it. The benefit of losing the last two years of Hartnell's deal are not a small thing. First, Umberger with 2 years left is probably easier to trade than Hartnell with 4. Also, if Umberger does really not have much left, he's an easier buyout than Hartnell.

But the bottom line here is that Hextall seems to be targeting better skating, more disciplined, two way players.
- Jsaquella

exactly. all of this. still would think it would have been better to trade him for just the pick, but that probably wasnt possible. the logic is there. whether people agree with it, thats up to them.

Interesting trade for sure has really created some interesting choices up front....what's clear is that Hextall viewed the Hartnell signing as a mistake......wonder if he views Vinny's deal the same way? Another mistake or big misjudgment ? If indeed Hextall values speed then I wonder if that includes his two slow footed D men....Schenn and Grossman ....just wondering ?
- landros 2

I don't think it means he views the Hartnell signing as a mistake. It just means right now, he felt this was the right move. Defense is a different animal.

He's a bit steadier, turns better and has better balance than Hartnell, but more importantly Umberger plays a more positionally sound game.
- BiggE

Jesus yes, when Hartsy did skate hard (which wasn't often enough), he'd be running around like a chicken with its head cut off. Umby takes the right route and angles, and knows where he's supposed to be relative to his mates.

Hextall did specifically say that Umberger is a better skater than Hartnell. Is he talking about speed or the ability to stay on his skates? I can't remember Umberger having great speed, but I could be wrong.
- ManCity

Find the highlights of Umberger's 2-goal game against Vancouver that someone posted in here earlier. His second one is a good example of him blowing past the Vancouver defense before scoring. That was in like 2011, but at least we know he had speed then

I think it boils down to a few things. First, Hextall wants to put his stamp on the team. He wants dedication and smart play. He wants versatility and guys that can play two way hockey and skate well. Second he's sending a message that discipline is going to be important. Not just penalty avoidance, but showing up in shape and playing in the system.

The key for the Flyers moving forward is going to be guys that can play two way hockey and do it in the system. Hartnell basically has to be used in a first line role, or otherwise he's useless. Umberger, despite his decline, can play effectively in a checking line role.

I'm still not overjoyed at the trade, but I see the thought process that is there. I can agree with it. The benefit of losing the last two years of Hartnell's deal are not a small thing. First, Umberger with 2 years left is probably easier to trade than Hartnell with 4. Also, if Umberger does really not have much left, he's an easier buyout than Hartnell.

But the bottom line here is that Hextall seems to be targeting better skating, more disciplined, two way players.
- Jsaquella

Well said. I also feels it frees up a role for a younger player to fill either now or in the near future. RJ will be happy to play 3rd line minutes.

Also if he sticks with a similar draft pattern as he was part of in LA expect plenty of players from the 3 major junior leagues.
- ob18

I really would be surprised if the prospect drafted in the first round would be considered under sized. Seems the Kings valued size, especially with their high picks.

I don't buy a single word of this.
- SuperSchennBros

That's your choice. But everything he stated was true. This year, and possibly next year the jackets win this trade, provided that this trade is looked at individually instead of hexys work as a whole over the off-season.

Less years.

A combined 2 less goals in 2 years playing on the third line as opposed to playing with Giroux and Vorachek.

Allows the younger players to step up and play a bigger role with the team.

What's not to like?

Why not? The benefits to this trade for the Flyers are obvious. No one is going to pretend that in the short term the BJ's didn't get the better end of this one. But there are many benefits to this deal for the Flyers and I'll list them. This is Hextall cleaning up Holmer's mess.

1. Umberger's deal is 2 years shorter. That is a big deal. No that is a HUGE deal when you're talking about 32 YOA power forwards. Both are declining players. Now with both declining, Umberger still has value in your bottom 6 grouping. Hartnell does not, that's not the type of player he is.

2. The Flyers can buy out Umberger in his last year with only a 1.6 mil penalty on the cap.

3. Do you think Umberger can pot 20 goals and close to 50 pts on a line with G all year? I think he could. So why are we getting so upset? If you want to go back over the last 2 years, Hartnell has 2 more goals than Umberger. What else is Hartnell bringing to the table? He is not the pest that he used to be, which contributed to his effectiveness.

4. We get a 4th rounder back.

Solid work by Hexy, a new regime indeed.
- Just5

This idea that Hextall is cleaning up Holmgren's mess, is not the case in my opinion. Unless you believe that if Hextall was the GM, he would've balked against re-signing Hartnell coming off a 37 goal all star season.

This idea that Hextall is cleaning up Holmgren's mess, is complete nonsense. Unless you believe that if Hextall was the GM, he would've balked against re-signing Hartnell coming off a 37 goal all star season.
- MJL

You do have to admit though, that it seemed like Holmgren waited for players to have career years before resigning them. Granted, this may have been more coincedence than anything, but it still feels that way.

You do have to admit though, that it seemed like Holmgren waited for players to have career years before resigning them. Granted, this may have been more coincedence than anything, but it still feels that way.
- fecondo

I think it has to do with the rule that a player can't be re-signed to a new deal until they have entered the final year of their current deal.

I think it has to do with the rule that a player can't be re-signed to a new deal until they have entered the final year of their current deal.
- MJL

That's fair. Especially considering the flyers track record for resigning players before they become rfas or ufas

This idea that Hextall is cleaning up Holmgren's mess, is complete nonsense. Unless you believe that if Hextall was the GM, he would've balked against re-signing Hartnell coming off a 37 goal all star season.
- MJL

What was the rush in signing Hartnell that summer? Despite getting that bargain of a cap hit, which we argued before. Yes I think Hexy might have done it different.