Hextall did specifically say that Umberger is a better skater than Hartnell. Is he talking about speed or the ability to stay on his skates? I can't remember Umberger having great speed, but I could be wrong.
- ManCity

He mentioned skating and being faster in particular. Umberger's far from a speedster, but Hartnell is a power skating coach's nightmare.

I think it boils down to a few things. First, Hextall wants to put his stamp on the team. He wants dedication and smart play. He wants versatility and guys that can play two way hockey and skate well. Second he's sending a message that discipline is going to be important. Not just penalty avoidance, but showing up in shape and playing in the system.

The key for the Flyers moving forward is going to be guys that can play two way hockey and do it in the system. Hartnell basically has to be used in a first line role, or otherwise he's useless. Umberger, despite his decline, can play effectively in a checking line role.

I'm still not overjoyed at the trade, but I see the thought process that is there. I can agree with it. The benefit of losing the last two years of Hartnell's deal are not a small thing. First, Umberger with 2 years left is probably easier to trade than Hartnell with 4. Also, if Umberger does really not have much left, he's an easier buyout than Hartnell.

But the bottom line here is that Hextall seems to be targeting better skating, more disciplined, two way players.
- Jsaquella

Can't argue with this but it's yet to be seen if this makes us a better team or not. Umburger has limitations the same way Hartnell does. There is now a whole next to Giroux, which becomes problematic. Sure we can say one of Schenn, Simmonds, Voracek or Read can fill in but that's am experimenting. We hope they can take the next step up and be as dominant as Claude Giroux is.

What was the rush in signing Hartnell that summer? Despite getting that bargain of a cap hit, which we argued before. Yes I think Hexy might have done it different.
- Just5

Pure speculation. There's enough to talk about concerning the trade without concocting some scheme of Hextall cleaning up Holmgren's mess. Any new GM is going to come in and have some different view points on how to build the team. Doesn't make one move right or wrong, just different. And really it remains to be seen if this move is the right move or not.

exactly. all of this. still would think it would have been better to trade him for just the pick, but that probably wasnt possible. the logic is there. whether people agree with it, thats up to them.
- stayinthefnnet

My guess is that wasn't an option. That deal has a real good chance of being an albatross in two or three years.

I think it boils down to a few things. First, Hextall wants to put his stamp on the team. He wants dedication and smart play. He wants versatility and guys that can play two way hockey and skate well. Second he's sending a message that discipline is going to be important. Not just penalty avoidance, but showing up in shape and playing in the system.

The key for the Flyers moving forward is going to be guys that can play two way hockey and do it in the system. Hartnell basically has to be used in a first line role, or otherwise he's useless. Umberger, despite his decline, can play effectively in a checking line role.

I'm still not overjoyed at the trade, but I see the thought process that is there. I can agree with it. The benefit of losing the last two years of Hartnell's deal are not a small thing. First, Umberger with 2 years left is probably easier to trade than Hartnell with 4. Also, if Umberger does really not have much left, he's an easier buyout than Hartnell.

But the bottom line here is that Hextall seems to be targeting better skating, more disciplined, two way players.
- Jsaquella

Yes, the deal is the team being molded on a disciplined no nonsense come to work and cut the histrionics/bad penalties/stupid selfish play. Clear all your thoughts and take a deep breath and fantasize Hartnell on the Kings with coach Sutter and their team wide buy in of the coaches means and methods. Cant see him there? That and the contract are why hes gone, not a bad person, someone who has involvement outside the rink and gives back.

After this we should all look closely at the future of Rosehill and Rinaldo.

My guess is that wasn't an option. That deal has a real good chance of being an albatross in two or three years.
- Jsaquella

i dont think it was either.

and now, imagine how hard vinnys will be to move

Yes, the deal is the team being molded on a disciplined no nonsense come to work and cut the histrionics/bad penalties/stupid selfish play. Clear all your thoughts and take a deep breath and fantasize Hartnell on the Kings with coach Sutter and their team wide buy in of the coaches means and methods. Cant see him there? That and the contract are why hes gone, not a bad person, someone who has involvement outside the rink and gives back.

After this we should all look closely at the future of Rosehill and Rinaldo.
- Steelmanpa

That's sort fo what got me thinking and led to first post. The Kings have slower guys, but they play disciplined and support the puck.

Umberger's advanced stats are not in line with that, but he did have a fair disparity in terms of Dzone starts and competition.

i dont think it was either.

and now, imagine how hard vinnys will be to move
- stayinthefnnet

Vinny might have to go the way of Billy Bats

Pure speculation. There's enough to talk about concerning the trade without concocting some scheme of Hextall cleaning up Holmgren's mess. Any new GM is going to come in and have some different view points on how to build the team. Doesn't make one move right or wrong, just different. And really it remains to be seen if this move is the right move or not.
- MJL

There are no good moves. There are no bad moves. Just different moves.

This is a deeper level of thinking.

I will now enter into a deep Rem sleep and start applying this to Shelley's last contract. I will advise on my findings.

i dont think it was either.

and now, imagine how hard vinnys will be to move
- stayinthefnnet

Pretty obvious, they're going to have to eat salary to have a chance to move him. I think it is 50/50 whether he gets dealt. I wouldn't be surprised if the goal was to get one albatross contract out of the top 9, getting rid of the second might be too much to ask.

i like the hartnell trade anyone else agree?

Vinny has $6 million less left on his contract than Hartnell did. That's a plus. If the Flyers can find a player with the same playing ability differential of (Hartnell/Umberger) on a 2 year contract and get a mid round pick, Do it.

Oh, and obviously Vinny has to agree.

There are no good moves. There are no bad moves. Just different moves.

This is a deeper level of thinking.

I will now enter into a deep Rem sleep and start applying this to Shelley's last contract. I will advise on my findings.
- Just5

You missed the point. There's no one blueprint to building a team. Many different kinds of teams, with different styles of play, have been successful. There are pros and cons to this deal. Maybe emulate Rip Van Winkle.

He mentioned skating and being faster in particular. Umberger's far from a speedster, but Hartnell is a power skating coach's nightmare.
- Jsaquella

hartnell is a brain surgeon's nightmare

Morin attending Team Canada WJC Camp.

With Hexy mentioning he wanted to get quicker up front, gotta believe the same applies to the blueline. L. Schenn and Grossmann probably shouldn't be feeling very comfortable right now.

With Hexy mentioning he wanted to get quicker up front, gotta believe the same applies to the blueline. L. Schenn and Grossmann probably shouldn't be feeling very comfortable right now.
- ravishingone

Hextall doesn't want to get smaller, either. He also had Greene & Mitchell in LA, and found a way to make them work. It's possible that we don't see much change on D

With Hexy mentioning he wanted to get quicker up front, gotta believe the same applies to the blueline. L. Schenn and Grossmann probably shouldn't be feeling very comfortable right now.
- ravishingone

I think Luke is safe. I would not be surprised in the slightest to see Grossmann moved however.

I just posted it, you make of it what you will. I know there is always 2 sides.
- ob18

Ha! Forget that people can't see intent on the Intenet; glad you posted it. Was just critiquing the article

With Hexy mentioning he wanted to get quicker up front, gotta believe the same applies to the blueline. L. Schenn and Grossmann probably shouldn't be feeling very comfortable right now.
- ravishingone

I personally don't believe that is the case. I think the chances of either being moved is low.

I'd say the Columbus Blue Jackets pulled off a fantastic deal, and the Flyers did not.
- EricEngels

Vinny might have to go the way of Billy Bats
- Jsaquella

he certainly wouldnt be able to outrun such a fate

[quote=AGalchenyuk27]
who cares?

He mentioned skating and being faster in particular. Umberger's far from a speedster, but Hartnell is a power skating coach's nightmare.
- Jsaquella

Correct me if I'm wrong -- and on this forum, somebody sure will -- but didn't Umberger used to be a fitness fanatic, too?

Hextall doesn't want to get smaller, either. He also had Greene & Mitchell in LA, and found a way to make them work. It's possible that we don't see much change on D
- Jsaquella

Possible, but the free agent market does offer decent size with better puck handlers with probable smaller cap hits. (Fayne, Hainsey, Mitchell, Gilbert)