Correct me if I'm wrong -- and on this forum, somebody sure will -- but didn't Umberger used to be a fitness fanatic, too?
- AllInForFlyers

Yes, he is. His cousin or brother is a trainer and does specialty work in Pittsburgh.

Possible, but the free agent market does offer decent size with better puck handlers with probable smaller cap hits. (Fayne, Hainsey, Mitchell, Gilbert)
- ravishingone

Oh, yeah...I'd happily move Grossmann to add Fayne. The latter is definitely more mobile and better with the puck. Also feel he will come more cheaply.

Scott Hartnell or RJ Umburger, who would you prefer? It's a one or the other question.

Scott Hartnell or RJ Umburger, who would you prefer? It's a one or the other question.
- SuperSchennBros

that is a gross oversimplification of the totality of the issue.

Possible, but the free agent market does offer decent size with better puck handlers with probable smaller cap hits. (Fayne, Hainsey, Mitchell, Gilbert)
- ravishingone

I don't think it's just about size, it's also about physical play. The last two defenseman added to the team are Streit and MacDonald. Neither player is known for physical play.

who cares?
- Winning

IKR -- i mean, let's be honest here. Nobody knows what either player is gonna do, and the last time people were female doging and moaning this much about the Flyers they had just acquired Steve Mason

At one time, folks were praising the Flyers and killing the Blue Jackets for the Bobrovsky deal.

It's all opinions until they hit the ice, because at some point, 82 games reveals many truths

Scott Hartnell or RJ Umburger, who would you prefer? It's a one or the other question.
- SuperSchennBros

that is a gross oversimplification of the totality of the issue.
- stayinthefnnet

yes

Oh, yeah...I'd happily move Grossmann to add Fayne. The latter is definitely more mobile and better with the puck. Also feel he will come more cheaply.
- Jsaquella

Give and take. Fayne is also considerably less physical then Grossmann is. Not sure that is what the Flyers would be looking for. In my opinion, any defenseman added to the current mix needs to have more of a physical edge to his game then Fayne has.

Flexibility in three years from now? Will Hextall be GM in three years from now?

Scott Hartnell or RJ Umburger, who would you prefer? It's a one or the other question.
- SuperSchennBros

Based on team composition, long term compensation I go with RJ.

Flexibility in three years from now? Will Hextall be GM in three years from now?
- SuperSchennBros

Flexibility 3 years from now, or no flexibility due to being saddled with a brutal contract for 2 more seasons 3 years from now? It's a one or the other question.

I personally don't believe that is the case. I think the chances of either being moved is low.
- MJL

I'm not sure how you change the mix of the blueline with both returning. They seem to be the most likely two candidates to be moved. The other 4 guys offer either more skating ability and/or better passing skill level.

Flexibility 3 years from now, or no flexibility from now? It's a one or the other question.
- Giroux_Is_God

I'll answer yours when you answer mine.

Flexibility in three years from now? Will Hextall be GM in three years from now?
- SuperSchennBros

Is that really relevant? How should Hextall run the team? Should he completely ignore the future in favor of now, with the thought that maybe he won't be the GM in 3 years?

I'm not sure how you change the mix of the blueline with both returning. They seem to be the most likely two candidates to be moved. The other 4 guys offer either more skating ability and/or better passing skill level.
- ravishingone

If

IF

IFFFFF a defenseman gets moved, my money is Grossmann. I think he's the odd man out

Scott Hartnell or RJ Umburger, who would you prefer? It's a one or the other question.
- SuperSchennBros

Yes, he is. His cousin or brother is a trainer and does specialty work in Pittsburgh.
- Jsaquella

Well, if that's the case, at least we know the guy is gonna rehab and come to camp in the kind of condition required to have a good season, if possible

I can see it either way; could he be in decline? Sure. Absolutely.

He also could have been playing for a coach who just didn't want him anymore, and that does affect you as a person -- I remember posting stuff about this months ago, where Umberger and the coach clearly didn't love each other

I'll answer yours when you answer mine.
- SuperSchennBros

its not always that simple though.

given the chance, right now.

would you take craig adams for VL?

Flexibility in three years from now? Will Hextall be GM in three years from now?
- SuperSchennBros

By then George Parros's mustache will hold tyrannical reign over the entire league.

I'm not sure how you change the mix of the blueline with both returning. They seem to be the most likely two candidates to be moved. The other 4 guys offer either more skating ability and/or better passing skill level.
- ravishingone

You don't change the mix with both returning. Having a lack of physical play is just as bad as having a lack of skating/passing ability. Need to find a balance. Make no mistake about it, and this is not the popular opinion. But if the Flyers move Grossmann in favor of a less physical better skating defenseman, they will miss those elements that Grossmann brings. The last 2 defenseman that the Flyers have added have been more mobile defenseman with better puck skills.

its not always that simple though.

given the chance, right now.

would you take craig adams for VL?
- stayinthefnnet

What's Adams term and hit?

Well, if that's the case, at least we know the guy is gonna rehab and come to camp in the kind of condition required to have a good season, if possible

I can see it either way; could he be in decline? Sure. Absolutely.

He also could have been playing for a coach who just didn't want him anymore, and that does affect you as a person -- I remember posting stuff about this months ago, where Umberger and the coach clearly didn't love each other
- AllInForFlyers

Lots of factors why a player is no longer fitting in with a team. I think statements that Umberger is a shot player are just assumptions.

I'll answer yours when you answer mine.
- SuperSchennBros

That's fair.

At face value, Hartnell.

But the reality is your question is silly. This trade wasn't made strictly because of RJ being "better" than Hartnell. There are plenty of underlying factors, most of which have been talked about today, including the salary part of it, RJ being a player who would fit in Roob's system better (don't forget the possibility of Hartnell not liking his role on the team for the next few years, but that's just a swirling rumor), RJ's defensive ability and wheels are superior to Hartsy's, and the fact that Hartnell is putting up rather mediocre numbers despite playing next to Jake and G AND playing on the first powerplay unit.

You can't just look at a trade and condone the rationale behind it.

Well, if that's the case, at least we know the guy is gonna rehab and come to camp in the kind of condition required to have a good season, if possible

I can see it either way; could he be in decline? Sure. Absolutely.

He also could have been playing for a coach who just didn't want him anymore, and that does affect you as a person -- I remember posting stuff about this months ago, where Umberger and the coach clearly didn't love each other
- AllInForFlyers

Yep. It's hard to really get the whole book on Umberger. I haven't watched him play a ton. I know the Jackets were ready to dump him and the feeling was mutual. From what I've read he wasn't playing well.

But it's a new situation. I think it's a much more lateral move than many who are shredding it, but I don't necessarily think it's a good move. It's a change, IMO for the reasons I spelled out before. The cap issues down the road are real. The other items are supposition, but are supported by Hextall's comments and record in LA.