Hartnell wont even be able to keep up with the slowest player from the Jackets last seaon. Then you will see what slow is. Hartnell's numbers were inflated by star talent that played around him. He played with Briere, Carter & Giroux and top PP minutes. He is on the steady decline. If he wasnt, we would never have traded him. We traded Mike Richards and look at him. 4th line center on the Kings.
- GOA88

Please don't bring that trade up cause there are village idiots out there that think we traded carter to la and will claim the flyers would gave one a cup if we did not make those trades.

Well he might play with Johanson and Jenner so he's in good company.
- Alexzanki

good luck keeping up with those guys he'll either be on his ass or in the box

Hartnell...

good luck keeping up with those guys he'll either be on his ass or in the box
- 2Real

Yet Giroux was shocked he got traded....I guess he must of done something right.

he will only be earning 4.5 at 36 and 3 mil at 37 in salary , as for cap space it's not an issue given they are not a cap team (and the cap will be at something like 80 mil). As for the whole ''he will be finished at 36 '' that will be a debate to have at that point in time. Really it's funny seeing flyer fans going out in force trying to make this look like a good deal for them.
- Alexzanki

You are only looking at cap space through your prospective.

Think of it as a team that is always up against the cap. ALWAYS. that 9.5M is kind of a big deal to us.

You don't see that? It's the difference between a solid contributor and a plugger.

Try to look at trades from both sides. You can afford the cap. Great! Doesn't concern our end at all. It's why Hextall made the trade.

This isn't hard math.

Yet Giroux was shocked he got traded....I guess he must of done something right.
- Alexzanki

Just ignore that guy. He is clueless.

Yet Giroux was shocked he got traded....I guess he must of done something right.
- Alexzanki

Yup. They were buddies.

Just ignore that guy. He is clueless.
- FlyersSteve118

He's not clueless. He just only sees one side of the deal and lives in the now, not the future.

You are only looking at cap space through your prospective.

Think of it as a team that is always up against the cap. ALWAYS. that 9.5M is kind of a big deal to us.

You don't see that? It's the difference between a solid contributor and a plugger.

Try to look at trades from both perspectives.
- Hesh_

Umberger is showing more signs of aging than Hartnell is. So that two years you save will be felt right away and we get to have the bad years of the contract. And all we had to do was trade away the player while he still had a few good years left. The cap hit in 3 years scenario means nothing if you are trying to win this year. So unless the Flyers are chasing McDavid next season this trade makes absolutely zero sense. I really hope this is part of something bigger, because it looks pathetic right now.

Umberger is showing more signs of aging than Hartnell is. So that two years you save will be felt right away and we get to have the bad years of the contract. And all we had to do was trade away the player while he still had a few good years left. The cap hit in 3 years scenario means nothing if you are trying to win this year. So unless the Flyers are chasing McDavid next season this trade makes absolutely zero sense. I really hope this is part of something bigger, because it looks pathetic right now.
- FlyersSteve118

He's gonna be a 4th liner most likely.

Did you like Hartnell on your 1st line? He's suited on the 3rd. Do you not want to see Hextall undo the mess? It won't be overnight, for chrissake. They gotta change a whole CULTURE. Hexy was taught West coast hockey.

I hope you aren't one of those fans that expects a turn around within a year.

This team has to be crafted. Hartnell wasnt a part of it. Nether is Umberger! The cap relief in 3 years as opposed to 5 sure is, though.

Man, I'm one of those guys that'll rip the front office when they make bad moves, but I can see this reasoning. I don't think it's difficult. At all. They'll take a small step back, and a (chance at) a big step forward in the not too distant future

Just ignore that guy. He is clueless.
- FlyersSteve118

and who the (frank) are you genius? watch any games?

Man, I'm one of those guys that'll rip the front office when they make bad moves, but I can see this reasoning. I don't think it's difficult. At all. They'll take a small step back, and a (chance at) a big step forward in the not too distant future
- Hesh_

...they could of got RJU for nothing......just saying.

...they could of got RJU for nothing......just saying.
- Alexzanki

Yeah, but what they wanted was to dump Hartnell's deal, not to get RJ. You're right. Coulda got RJ for cheap. Then they'd have had Umberger AND still been saddled with Hartnell counting 4.75 against the cap until he is 37. 37.

RJ was not the point. He was the load they had to take back to relieve themselves of Hartnell's last 2 years of his ridiculous extension

It

Wasn't

About

Umberger

Who won this trade will come down to which player finds chemistry on their new team. The charts and graphs mean nothing that is all in the past.

Who won this trade will come down to which player finds chemistry on their new team. The charts and graphs mean nothing that is all in the past.
- LJF

Nah. Hartnell is a little better. It's about one team trying to put something together short term to keep progressing and another trying to make moves for a brighter future.

Todd Cordell: Blue Jackets Re-Sign Curtis McElhinney + Another Note on Hartnell/Umberger
- Todd-Cordell

To be fair, in the cases of the Flyers players last year without Hartnell, Schenn & Simmonds played mostly with Vincent Lecavalier, who was a black hole of possession last season.

Giroux and Voracek, when not with Hartnell, sometimes had Lecavalier or rookie Michael Raffl. Giroux also got many shifts as a secondary faceoff guy on Dzone draws, where he would be out with Adam Hall or Sean Couturier.

...they could of got RJU for nothing......just saying.
- Alexzanki

But could they have gotten rid of Hartnell without taking Umberger or a similar contract back?

That's the thing, the Flyers decided to move on from Hartnell. Not a lot of teams taking on his deal without asking the Flyers to either eat some cash or take on a contract in return.

Ignoring that, looking only at the player for player part, is missing a large part of why the Flyers made the move.

so a guy who can't skate or play defense who also benefitted by playing with one of the 5 best players in the league is decisively better than a versatile player who skates and defends well. gotcha

so a guy who can't skate or play defense who also benefitted by playing with one of the 5 best players in the league is decisively better than a versatile player who skates and defends well. gotcha
- flyerscup2011

Who's the versatile player who skates and defends well? It's certainly not Umberger. He's lost a step or 3 since his first go around in Philly, and he hasn't played center in over 3 years.

Who's the versatile player who skates and defends well? It's certainly not Umberger. He's lost a step or 3 since his first go around in Philly, and he hasn't played center in over 3 years.
- Jimmys7

perfect we don't need another center

so a guy who can't skate or play defense who also benefitted by playing with one of the 5 best players in the league is decisively better than a versatile player who skates and defends well. gotcha
- flyerscup2011

The guy who can't skate will actually work hard on the ice and hold on the puck , RJU is fast (supposedly.....not from what I saw) but he has hands of stone, as for versatile your just getting a LW ,RW guy , RJU at center is a myth.

He might be good on defence but a barely saw him on the PK this year to make that assessment.

The guy who can't skate will actually work hard on the ice and hold on the puck , RJU is fast (supposedly.....not from what I saw) but he has hands of stone, as for versatile your just getting a LW ,RW guy , RJU at center is a myth.

He might be good on defence but a barely saw him on the PK this year to make that assessment.
- Alexzanki

This trade was all about two teams needing partners.

Berube was sick of Hartnell's undisciplined play. He was a penalty machine, and it was mostly the undisciplined, hooking, holding, tripping, losing your composure type penalties.


The Flyers traded away 40 extra minor penalties. Berube is tired of them being always among the most penalized teams in the league and Hartnell was a major contributor. This was not going to change.

The two less years on the cap are a bonus.

We traded a few goals, for more discipline and more versatility. There is no arguing that point. Did Columbus get the better player? Sure they did, but its not like the Flyers traded John Leclair for Jim Dowd.

The guy who can't skate will actually work hard on the ice and hold on the puck , RJU is fast (supposedly.....not from what I saw) but he has hands of stone, as for versatile your just getting a LW ,RW guy , RJU at center is a myth.

He might be good on defence but a barely saw him on the PK this year to make that assessment.
- Alexzanki

Well, the guy who will actually work hard is a bit of a myth, too. Hartnell had issues staying out of the doghouses of each of the last 3 Flyers coaches because there's been many times that the effort didn't meet the required level.