I like what Madden said about Neal for 2 young and established 3rd line guys. I don't think a Neal trade has to be for a Neal replacement.

I also like the Martin idea but think he will be dealt later, if it becomes apparent he will not re-sign.
- icedog97

It doesn't have to be an equal Neal replacement. But I'd take a younger guy that can score 25ish goals on Malkins line. And the second piece could be a more established 3rd liner. Depending on your view of Dupuis, we already have 2 holes in the top 6 (Jokinen) so we need at least one guy to take Neal's spot but we can redistribute the goal production throughout the lineup.

Why change something that has worked? Both players have good chemistry with the guys who are centering them.

His idea of trading Neal for two third liners is laughable. You don't trade guys who would most likely be first line players for lesser players just to fill a void. You need to get value for trading someone like Neal and that simply doesn't cut it.
- acdc1206

Conversely, Kunitz had great chemistry with Malkin as well. Something isn't quite working overall with the lineup so little tweaks like this are worth at least exploring, IMO. I don't want to assume that Neal can't play with Sid. That's why he was brought here in the first place but never got the chance.

Why change something that has worked? Both players have good chemistry with the guys who are centering them.

His idea of trading Neal for two third liners is laughable. You don't trade guys who would most likely be first line players for lesser players just to fill a void. You need to get value for trading someone like Neal and that simply doesn't cut it. Then we will go back to the complaints prior to the arrival of Neal about not having a scoring winger.
- acdc1206

It's not laughable at all.

You get 2 players for one...assuming the salaries offset.

What if you did that and signed a top 6 guy that fits what you want/need better?

I think Madden is saying...there are not a lot of great 3rd line FA's out there...and you will likely overpay for them...like someone might for Jokinen (how long will he be a top 6 guy anyway?)

You trade 1 guy for two who have a contract...and then maybe pursue another forward (top 6) via other means.

Think bigger picture.

It's not laughable at all.

You get 2 players for one...assuming the salaries offset.

What if you did that and signed a top 6 guy that fits what you want/need better?

I think Madden is saying...there are not a lot of great 3rd line FA's out there...and you will likely overpay for them...like someone might for Jokinen (how long will he be a top 6 guy anyway?)

You trade 1 guy for two who have a contract...and then maybe pursue another forward (top 6) via other means.

Think bigger picture.
- icedog97

There are no quality top 6 wingers in FA. And after you trade Neal, who else would you trade for a top 6 guy?

It's not laughable at all.

You get 2 players for one...assuming the salaries offset.

What if you did that and signed a top 6 guy that fits what you want/need better?

I think Madden is saying...there are not a lot of great 3rd line FA's out there...and you will likely overpay for them...like someone might for Jokinen (how long will he be a top 6 guy anyway?)

You trade 1 guy for two who have a contract...and then maybe pursue another forward (top 6) via other means.

Think bigger picture.
- icedog97

Laughable may be a strong word but I will say this -- James Neal is probably the third best pure goal scorer in the NHL. I don't want to forget that when gauging his value.

It's not laughable at all.

You get 2 players for one...assuming the salaries offset.

What if you did that and signed a top 6 guy that fits what you want/need better?

I think Madden is saying...there are not a lot of great 3rd line FA's out there...and you will likely overpay for them...like someone might for Jokinen (how long will he be a top 6 guy anyway?)

You trade 1 guy for two who have a contract...and then maybe pursue another forward (top 6) via other means.

Think bigger picture.
- icedog97

Probably not laughable since it's a mans opinion, but you don't trade a James Neal for two third line players when guys like David Moss are available, along with Goc and Stemps. It's counterproductive! A coach that will hold Neal accountable should shape him up pretty quick, then we have a solid third with a former 40 goal scorer who has already developed chemistry with one of the best. Add in a new coach with a new system and he could be the best salary in the NHL.

Laughable may be a strong word but I will say this -- James Neal is probably the third best pure goal scorer in the NHL. I don't want to forget that when gauging his value.
- YouMeAndDupuis9

his disappearing act in the playoffs is a pretty big problem.

his disappearing act in the playoffs is a pretty big problem.
- nbartley9

And his inability to create anything on his own when not playing with a superstar center

his disappearing act in the playoffs is a pretty big problem.
- nbartley9

And Crosby? If one can be excused why not the other?

Kris Letang is one of my favorite hockey players. He is a complete hockey player. Everyone knows about his offensive flare, but I think his defensive play is underrated. Another under appreciated part of his game is his grit. We have heard about "grit and character" well Letang has it. He was an already established NHL semi star D man and the guy fought twice in a pre season game! He doesn't budge and inch in front of the net, and wasn't he one of the only players to stick up for the captain this past post season?(after surly being specifically told not to)
This past season is a wash due to the health issues. One good thing we can take from it was his bounce back. The guy had a stroke and came back to have a pretty good playoff. That shows balls grit character passion whatever you want to call it. With Orpik almost certainly leaving I would slap that A on Letang's sweater and not think twice about it.

I like what Madden said about Neal for 2 young and established 3rd line guys. I don't think a Neal trade has to be for a Neal replacement.

- icedog97

I only make that deal if one of both of those young 3rd line guys have a better than average shot at becoming legit NHL top 6 players in the near future.

I think Engo is getting phone calls because of his versatility. Someone is going to use him as a guy that can play some 4th line time and then pop back to defense if a D-man goes down or gets ejected or is called for a major or something rather than playing the rest of the game with only 5 D-men. He also has some hands playing down low and isn't afraid to go to the net when he's on offense.

He's a guy that I could definitely see the Pens re-signing, but only if he accepts that he's going to see 99% 4th line minutes and only see the blue line when crossing it or out of necessity.
- ScienceJesus

I agree with this. I think lumping Engo in with Glass, Vitale and Pyatt is a bit much. The guy scored more goals than all of them at forward, I think? Being a career D man he is going to naturally be more comfortable with the puck than a Tanner Glass. Add his ability to fight and I wouldn't mind paying him 550k, however he would have to embrace playing forward. If the Pens D would hit the injury bug though he would come in handy.

And Crosby? If one can be excused why not the other?
- Topshelf Mountain

Crosby has a higher goals per game in the playoffs than James Neal does. One playoff performance does not a career make.

No. Johnston's proposed system is the targeted for guys exactly opposite of players like Scuderi.
- YouMeAndDupuis9

So untrue. Breaking out as a team helps any defenseman, no matter what their skill level. If an easy 10 ft pass is available I am more than confident that Rob Scuderi can connect. Think about LA, was a stretch pass they're go too breakout?

So untrue. Breaking out as a team helps any defenseman, no matter what their skill level. If an easy 10 ft pass is available I am more than confident that Rob Scuderi can connect. Think about LA, was a stretch pass they're go too breakout?
- Grinder47

He wasn't good with LA either.

Johnston's team is also, up-tempo and based on skating. In MJs own words, the defenseman with the puck has a green light to skate all the way to the opponents net unless he has options available. Does that sound like Scuderi to you?

Crosby has a higher goals per game in the playoffs than James Neal does. One playoff performance does not a career make.
- usethe1-2-2

18 points through 25 playoff games wasn't disappearing. This last year, yes, but so did quite a few others. Hence my Crosby question.

Out of curiosity... Does anybody know how many players "rights" have been traded this off-season? I can only think of Boyle and Nikitin.

So even though there are countless UFA's this year, only 2 guys actually changed teams. I think there's the answer why Nisky didn't get moved.

And his inability to create anything on his own when not playing with a superstar center
- kfinl170

I don't think any one is questioning his shortcomings. But the fact remains he is a top 5 pure goal scorer in the league. I actually think he's third behind Ovechkin and Stamkos.

But playoffs are a pretty short sample size. I do agree he doesn't create a ton on his own but anyone would see a significant decrease in production in playing with Malkin vs. playing with Sutter. (Especially trying to get chemistry on the fly in a playoff series)

My whole point is not to defend everything about Neal. I actually think hes a great candidate for a trade. But his return must be very significant. I'd set the bar with the Bobby Ryan trade as the absolute minimum kind of value to accept.

Out of curiosity... Does anybody know how many players "rights" have been traded this off-season? I can only think of Boyle and Nikitin.

So even though there are countless UFA's this year, only 2 guys actually changed teams. I think there's the answer why Nisky didn't get moved.
- madmike71

That's all I know of. This courting period most likely means very few trades for rights in the future. A Niskanen-caliber UFA certainly seemed to be a possibility...

That's all I know of. This courting period most likely means very few trades for rights in the future. A Niskanen-caliber UFA certainly seemed to be a possibility...
- YouMeAndDupuis9

Halak as well

is this a make or break year for bennett? with him being injured a lot and DB not putting him in top 6 over players like gibbons... I feel if he doesnt have a good year after he comes back, that he might be seen as a "failure"

Halak as well
- kfinl170

Ah yes, forgot about him.

I just think most teams expect these players to test the market. Nisky is the highest profile UFA dman on the market. There's virtually no benefit for him to sign a deal early. Teams realize this and don't want to throw away draft picks.

I almost guarantee you no team made an offer.

18 points through 25 playoff games wasn't disappearing. This last year, yes, but so did quite a few others. Hence my Crosby question.
- Topshelf Mountain

6 points in 5 games against Philly was actually below average. He was a minus 3, had 12 pims and was suspended for throwing elbows to players heads.

I don't care about producing against the Islanders, Flyers, and Senators, he didn't come through in the big time.

Probably not laughable since it's a mans opinion, but you don't trade a James Neal for two third line players when guys like David Moss are available, along with Goc and Stemps. It's counterproductive! A coach that will hold Neal accountable should shape him up pretty quick, then we have a solid third with a former 40 goal scorer who has already developed chemistry with one of the best. Add in a new coach with a new system and he could be the best salary in the NHL.
- Topshelf Mountain

I thought the key word was young. 2 young third liners... guys with potential to develop into top 6 talent would be a great return for neal. those two supposed guys, along with bennett, dupes, and maybe a fa or 2 would make for great competition along cros/malk side.

is this a make or break year for bennett? with him being injured a lot and DB not putting him in top 6 over players like gibbons... I feel if he doesnt have a good year after he comes back, that he might be seen as a "failure"
- nh4442

Maybe, but only in the sense that if he gets another wrist injury he could be a failure.

In terms of production, no. Dan really misplayed him and never gave him a shot to play consistent top 6 so he cant be judged to harshly on production.
Also, he is up for RFA negotiations so it is a contract year if that helps.