I'd like to know what system vinny fits in in this league. Is there any system out there that doesn't put a premium on skating?

Vinny is an immovable piece right now. Flyers have to deal with it. Bad signing.
It was an even worse move when they gave lava 3 games with him.
- Just5

Vinny will get his bonus payment tomorrow and we'll see where he ends up.

I wouldn't be surprised if he stays or goes at this point.

I'd like to know what system vinny fits in in this league. Is there any system out there that doesn't put a premium on skating?

Vinny is an immovable piece right now. Flyers have to deal with it. Bad signing.
It was an even worse move when they gave lava 3 games with him.

- Just5

You're right. Lecavalier can all of a sudden not play for any team in the League. Might as well make him a stick boy.

I'd like to know what system vinny fits in in this league. Is there any system out there that doesn't put a premium on skating?

Vinny is an immovable piece right now. Flyers have to deal with it. Bad signing.
It was an even worse move when they gave lava 3 games with him.
- Just5

It's why I don't even bother responding. I figured the declining play and bad fit systemically were plenty of evidence of the issues with Lecavalier, without having to mention the crippling contract, which is really why he is so difficult to move.

Guess I was wrong.

However, i do disagree that he's unmovable. There's teams out there that need a guy who can score goals. Lecavalier would have been 2d on Florida in goals and points last year. So there is a need out there...it just depends on how much money the Flyers are willing to eat

I would actually like to see Couturier as second line center with reduced time on the PK and Schenn as a winger for the year but that's just my personal opinion.
- Flyers_01

Hopefully over the next season or two as Laughton comes on line....assuming he lives up to the role he is being projected as......this will give couturier more offensive responsibility.

That being said, I already think he is a Selke level defender. 1st 2nd 3rd lines are just numbers. I think if the Flyers plan to run him out there with Read and Umberger, he will get his offensive shots....simply because many times, the other teams top lines aren't necessarily their best defensive lines. If Read can pop in his customary 25, Umberger his customary 18-20, and Couturier get into the 20 goal range (which I think is entirely reasonable) that will be a hell of a line regardless of what its designation on the 1st 2nd 3rd chart is.

The addition and maturity of Laughton will sure help to give Couts more offensive zone starts. But first I want to make sure Laughton earns the trust of Berube where he can be skated out to take those defensive zone draws.

We shall see.

If I bought an expensive beer yesterday, tried it and didn't like it was it poor money management to spend on a beer that wasn't as good as I thought it would be or did the beer just not go down as smoothly as I thought but worth the price to someone else who likes that beer?

Signing Free agents that didn't work out is not mishandling the cap. That's just not choosing the right players. The Flyers have also made a lot of the right choices. Why isn't that considered handling the cap well?
- MJL

What???? of course they are.....one goes hand in hand with the other.....because they have overpaid in some cases...given bad term in others...or offered NTC or NMC in some of these deals....that tied the hands of the Flyers....it's shocking you don't see the tie in!!!!!
The Flyers will never be accused of not being aggressive, but in some cases its come back to bite them. With the cap you can't buy yourself out of all your mistakes. Quite frankly thats how the Flyers got some of these players...because they were willing to do some things other teams wouldn't.

Not at this point. I think they can move Grossmann or another depth piece, replace it with a similar or slightly lesser player making less cash and then exploit the Pronger LTIR in the summer.

They could also max out Pronger's LTIR this summer, start the season $4.9mm over the cap and use Pronger's LTIR benefits from the get go.

It's certainly doable, but it's also pushing the envelope.
- Jsaquella

Would you consider moving streit and signing a cheaper/shorter term not as good option like a Gilbert? The hard decisions need to be made to clear the cap. I like streit too, he would bring back value

If I bought an expensive beer yesterday, tried it and didn't like it was it poor money management to spend on a beer that wasn't as good as I thought it would be or did the beer just not go down as smoothly as I thought but worth the price to someone else who likes that beer?
- funmaster18

This is why I get the best bang for my buck with Shock Top Belgian White.

It's why I don't even bother responding. I figured the declining play and bad fit systemically were plenty of evidence of the issues with Lecavalier, without having to mention the crippling contract, which is really why he is so difficult to move.

Guess I was wrong.

- Jsaquella

I have never stated once that question marks about Lecavalier and his fit with the team under Berube were incorrect. And weren't legitimate reasons for suggesting that the Flyers trade Lecavalier.

If I bought an expensive beer yesterday, tried it and didn't like it was it poor money management to down on a beer that wasn't as good as I thought it would be or did the beer just not go down as smoothly as I thought but worth the price to someone else who likes that beer?
- funmaster18

How do you know if that expensive beer is any good until you try it?

I don't consider trying something and having it not work out to be failure.

I'm more apt to regret things I didn't do rather than things I did.

I personally disagree that the Flyers cap management has been a problem. Some might not agree with thier philosophy, but that doesn't make it mismanagement. Every year they put a quality roster on the ice for the season. And also have the space to make free agent offers to players such as Weber, Suter, Parise, Bryzgalov, Lecavalier, etc. A couple of those players weren't the right choices, but that's a player personell issue more then mismanagement of the cap. Also drafting issues have come into play, forcing the Flyers to have to spend more in some areas to shore up weaknesses. That again, is not cap mismanagement.
- MJL

They gave Bryz an absurd deal after trading to get his rights. The market for a starter that season was down to about two teams, and there were about 4 guys capable of filling that need. The Flyers signed a 30 year old goalie to a 9 year deal. IF that is a good signing.. whew.

Vinny Lecavalier: With the Flyers seemingly looking to go with youth and patience (as described by their then GM) they go out and make a bang by signing fading 33 year old star Vinny Lecavalier to a 5 year deal.


Both of those are puzzling due to the length of the deal.

They got lucky with Briere and Bryz, because they were able to buy them out. IF that clause was never added.. this franchise would be (frank)ed for the next decade.

If I bought an expensive beer yesterday, tried it and didn't like it was it poor money management to spend on a beer that wasn't as good as I thought it would be or did the beer just not go down as smoothly as I thought but worth the price to someone else who likes that beer?
- funmaster18

You're right. Lecavalier can all of a sudden not play for any team in the League. Might as well make him a stick boy.
- MJL

then which is it? bad contract? or declining player? It appears that can't even give him away with out eating something.

If I bought an expensive beer yesterday, tried it and didn't like it was it poor money management to spend on a beer that wasn't as good as I thought it would be or did the beer just not go down as smoothly as I thought but worth the price to someone else who likes that beer?
- funmaster18

Sure. Does anybody else think the beer is worth that price? Can you sell the rest of the beer for near what you paid for it?

If I buy an expensive beer, find it's not to my taste, and then find that nobody else is willing to pay that price for the beer, I made a mistake, especially if I tied up a significant portion of my allotted beer budget to acquire the beer. Even if I can get somebody to buy the beer from me at a loss, I still end up short changed.

This is why I get the best bang for my buck with Shock Top Belgian White.

- MBFlyerfan

I love Belgian whites. Haven't had the shock top but am a big fan of allagash white

Would you consider moving streit and signing a cheaper/shorter term not as good option like a Gilbert? The hard decisions need to be made to clear the cap. I like streit too, he would bring back value
- Just5

At this point, it's a valid option, although I think Gilbert will be getting a significant raise form the $900K he got last year

They have to start using Couturier in more favorable situations and matchups at ES also. taking less penalties as a team would be a good way to do that.
- MJL

Trading Hartnell went a long way towards fixing that problem didn't it?

It's why I don't even bother responding. I figured the declining play and bad fit systemically were plenty of evidence of the issues with Lecavalier, without having to mention the crippling contract, which is really why he is so difficult to move.

Guess I was wrong.

However, i do disagree that he's unmovable. There's teams out there that need a guy who can score goals. Lecavalier would have been 2d on Florida in goals and points last year. So there is a need out there...it just depends on how much money the Flyers are willing to eat
- Jsaquella

Last summer, I honestly had no idea he would fit so poorly into what the had here. I also didn't think they were going to change coaches 3 games into the season. I "wish" all contracts were just 1 year, but that isn't how it works. Without that extra year or two extra, they don't get the player for the lower money. I guess they then have the option to just not do it, but if you think the player will help (which clearly they did), you have to do what it takes if you want him. While the Vinny signing has turned into a negative for the team, I thought it was a good idea last summer.

How do you know if that expensive beer is any good until you try it?

I don't consider trying something and having it not work out to be failure.

I'm more apt to regret things I didn't do rather than things I did.
- johndewar

As long as I spent what most others would have paid, I'm fine if it just doesn't work out. As long as I did some research prior to my decision and not rushing because the beer just became available

If they get Niskanen at, let's say, $7M, that gives them less than $2M to fill out 2-3 forward slots and a backup goalie spot. They're not in all that great of a spot to do something like this.
- jmatchett383

Maybe its for somebody were not expecting. If nisky is all about the $$$ he prob goes to the wild. They love overpaying D men.

If I bought an expensive beer yesterday, tried it and didn't like it was it poor money management to spend on a beer that wasn't as good as I thought it would be or did the beer just not go down as smoothly as I thought but worth the price to someone else who likes that beer?
- funmaster18

You gotta go with the summer Shandy best beer ever

then which is it? bad contract? or declining player? It appears that can't even give him away with out eating something.
- landros 2

They sort of go hand in hand. More teams would be apt to roll the dice on Lecavalier if he had fewer years and less cash tied up into him. If he had two years left instead of four, they might be able to get rid of him and not have to eat money.

If I bought an expensive beer yesterday, tried it and didn't like it was it poor money management to spend on a beer that wasn't as good as I thought it would be or did the beer just not go down as smoothly as I thought but worth the price to someone else who likes that beer?
- funmaster18

Did you buy a sixer or a case?

If you bought a case of it because it was on sale, spit the beer out, and try to pass or off to uninterested friends who have tastes some before. That's on you

Sure. Does anybody else think the beer is worth that price? Can you sell the rest of the beer for near what you paid for it?

If I buy an expensive beer, find it's not to my taste, and then find that nobody else is willing to pay that price for the beer, I made a mistake, especially if I tied up a significant portion of my allotted beer budget to acquire the beer. Even if I can get somebody to buy the beer from me at a loss, I still end up short changed.
- Jsaquella

Selling it after the fact when it doesn't work out will almost always result in a loss, because other drinkers know you don't want it and need to get rid of it so you can get a beer you do like

What???? of course they are.....one goes hand with the other.....because they have overpaid in some cases...given bad term in others...or offered NTC or NMC in some these deals....that tied the hands of the Flyers....it's shocking you don't see the tie in!!!!!
The Flyers will never be accused of not being aggressive, but in some cases its come back to bite them. With the cap you can't buy yourself out of all your mistakes. Quite frankly thats how the Flyers got some of these players...because they were willing to do some things other teams wouldn't.
- landros 2

What I see and understand is the NHL salary market. Top free agents are always going to be overpaid, and a lot of players are going to get movement clauses. The amount of movement clauses that the Flyers have given out is not out of line with the rest of the League.

The only thing that makes a signing a bad signing is how the player plays. If Lecavalier had had a great season and hadn't gotten hurt, the discussion about him being traded is not happening. And it wouldn't be considered bad cap management.

Some may not agree with the Flyers philosphy in the past, but that doesn't make it bad management.

There are legitimate criticisms of the team that have forced them to spend more in some areas, such as on defense. But even if they had some younger players on defense that are cheaper, they would've just spent it elsewhere. And I'm okay with that and how the Flyers manage the cap.

The Flyers have made more good choices then bad choices with players. And they always have th ability to add and make additions to the team that they think are the right ones. I don't see all the cap problems. And I know the numbers inside and out.