If Lecavalier didn't have a back injury and had a strong season last year, think it would be easier to trade him now?
- MJL

Yes. He had 9 goals, 14 points in 22 games before the injury.

What made it a bad signing? How the player played! What many want to ignore is that the Flyers didn't want the other goalie. They wanted Bryzgalov, and thought that he would be the player to solve their goaltending issues that have plagued them for years. I have no problem with that. And why was the contract 9 years? To add on years on the back end to lower the cap hit so they could also do some other things. It didn't work out, and in the end yes, it was a bad signing. Fortunately they had the CBO to get out of it.



The Flyers are not a team that looks to totally rebuild. They always try to win. Most teams try to sorround a core of young player with veterans. That they signed Lecavalier doesn't mean that they weren't looking to stick with the core and look to the future.





What I remember with Briere is all those playoff runs and great points he put up n the playoffs. Great signing by the Flyers.
- MJL

Giving just about ANY goalie a long term deal is a HUGE mistake. Especially one that was known to have "character issues". The fact that they put immense length into the deal was so that they could afford him in the first place. The Flyers are in a position of weakness right now because they have to over pay to fill out their roster, year after year. The reason they over pay is because they tend to over value players.

Look no further than their defense. Right now they have the highest paid defense in the league (according to capgeek)... Do they have a top 15 defense? Nope.

Sanheim a Penguins fan?

- FlyersGrace

FIGHT AFTER SCHOOL! 3pm, behind the skate zone.....

Seemed like a fairly solid draft from everything I've read. Pretty safe, not many reaches. I've seen draft grades from C+ to B+.

Good to see some legit defensive prospects in the pipeline. Flyers could be set up nicely on the backend in 3-4 years.

Not sure what to expect tomorrow, Hextall is going to have to get creative to improve the team.
- PLindbergh31

Expect the unexpected

It went totally against what they discussed though. Homer flat out said that he was going to be patient and let the young kids grow, blah blah blah... then he goes out and signs a guy who really is a slower shell of his former self..... to a 5 year deal. How can anyone say that thats a smart move with the team they had? Was it a move projected to put them over the top? NOPE. Was adding another Center (for the next 5 years) a bigger need than allocating that money to a d-man?

Thats the problem.. when offering a contract to a player you need to decide those things.. then you need to design a contract that makes sense for now and the future... Honestly, having him here now doesnt make sense, and having him here in 2016-17 doesnt make sense... so why sign him at all. BAD use of your cap allotment.
- jak521

I disagree that it went against what they discussed. They never said that they weren't going to use all the tools to make the team better. Now if they had moved a peice of the young core to add Lecavalier, then you might have a point. It's pretty common for even teams in a complete rebuild to add some veteran players for support.
Lecavalier scored at a 67 point pace the season before.
The Flyers have one of the most expensive defense cores in hockey. Signing Lecavalier has not taken away money for the defense. The added MacDonald for 5M after signing Lecavalier.

Giving just about ANY goalie a long term deal is a HUGE mistake. Especially one that was known to have "character issues". The fact that they put immense length into the deal was so that they could afford him in the first place. The Flyers are in a position of weakness right now because they have to over pay to fill out their roster, year after year. The reason they over pay is because they tend to over value players.

Look no further than their defense. Right now they have the highest paid defense in the league (according to capgeek)... Do they have a top 15 defense? Nope.
- jak521

Yeah, 9 years was crazy. Things change too quickly in net unless the goalie is a HOFer like Brodeur or Lundqvist.

Yeah, 9 years was crazy. Things change too quickly in net unless the goalie is a HOFer like Brodeur or Lundqvist.
- Feanor

Quick seems to be panning out in LA too

What I see and understand is the NHL salary market. Top free agents are always going to be overpaid, and a lot of players are going to get movement clauses. The amount of movement clauses that the Flyers have given out is not out of line with the rest of the League.

The only thing that makes a signing a bad signing is how the player plays. If Lecavalier had had a great season and hadn't gotten hurt, the discussion about him being traded is not happening. And it wouldn't be considered bad cap management.

Some may not agree with the Flyers philosphy in the past, but that doesn't make it bad management.

There are legitimate criticisms of the team that have forced them to spend more in some areas, such as on defense. But even if they had some younger players on defense that are cheaper, they would've just spent it elsewhere. And I'm okay with that and how the Flyers manage the cap.

The Flyers have made more good choices then bad choices with players. And they always have th ability to add and make additions to the team that they think are the right ones. I don't see all the cap problems. And I know the numbers inside and out.
- MJL

only half true....it's not the good signings that kill you....but the bad contracts/signings catch up to you in the cap world. It is not true that they have the capability today to add any free agent they want...they are more restricted then any other team in the NHL. (maybe thats a good thing)
The problems start when you are that aggressive...you do things that others won't do to get players signed. When you do get caught with bad decisions the system isn't very forgiving.
and I think its fair to say we all know the #s inside out.....Capgeek is in my favorites.

Giving just about ANY goalie a long term deal is a HUGE mistake. Especially one that was known to have "character issues". The fact that they put immense length into the deal was so that they could afford him in the first place. The Flyers are in a position of weakness right now because they have to over pay to fill out their roster, year after year. The reason they over pay is because they tend to over value players.

Look no further than their defense. Right now they have the highest paid defense in the league (according to capgeek)... Do they have a top 15 defense? Nope.
- jak521

iving Lundqvist, or Quick or Rask a long term deal would be a mistake? They added the years to lower the cap hit. So they could do other things.

If they so mismanage the cap, how have they afforded the most expensive defense in the League?

I feel like you are forgetting trades. That's where your real world analogy doesn't make sense to me. The Flyers will chase who they feel will make the team better. And if requires a trade, they'll do that. It's not ideal but it is possible.
- FlyersGrace

Yea, but how can you trade a guy with a horrible contract and walk out on the good side of things?

They were in such a bind a few years ago that they traded Gagne + for Matt Walker. Before that it was Upshall + for Carcillo. In between we had to trade the center pieces of our franchise (and two time cup winners) Carter and Richards so that we could sign (yes MJL, I know that they COULD have still signed Bryz) Bryz to a ridiculously long term deal, only to buy him out. Then after a break out year, the Flyers give a longggg deal to a pretty one dimensional power winger, only to make a lateral move to save a few years on that deal. Now we are looking to move Vinny because he is holding us back on the ice and in the cap world.

Sanheim a Penguins fan?

- FlyersGrace

thats fair....De Angelo was a Flyer fan until Friday night as well!!

Giving just about ANY goalie a long term deal is a HUGE mistake. Especially one that was known to have "character issues". The fact that they put immense length into the deal was so that they could afford him in the first place. The Flyers are in a position of weakness right now because they have to over pay to fill out their roster, year after year. The reason they over pay is because they tend to over value players.

Look no further than their defense. Right now they have the highest paid defense in the league (according to capgeek)... Do they have a top 15 defense? Nope.
- jak521

I don't think they overvalue players. I think that our focus has been trade oriented (win now) versus developing the kids in the farm system. They've been raiding the cabinet for years - so not much in it. What percentage of D versus forwards were home grown versus trades? You always pay more in salary for trades coming in because no one like to give up their good young, cheap talent...

only half true....it's not the good signings that kill you....but the bad contracts/signings catch up to you in the cap world. It is not true that they have the capability today to add any free agent they want...they are more restricted then any other team in the NHL. (maybe thats a good thing)
The problems start when you are that aggressive...you do things that others won't do to get players signed. When you do get caught with bad decisions the system isn't very forgiving.
and I think its fair to say we all know the #s inside out.....Capgeek is in my favorites.
- landros 2

In reality they are not more restricted then any team in the NHL.

Here is something that I have to repeat every year. Capgeek does not give the true numbers in the off season. They give an estimate of the season based on what players they think will be on the team. They state this on their site.

So if you just look at capgeek, you don't know the exact numbers.

The Flyers aren't doing things any differenty then a lot of teams are in the NHL.

Quick question. What is the Flyers upper limit going to be this upcoming season?

thats fair....De Angelo was a Flyer fan until Friday night as well!!
- landros 2

So was Son of Sami.

So was Son of Sami.
- Feanor

I sank a little when I read he went to the Pens.

Fully admit I wanted the Flyers to draft him, but I'm sure that comes from sentiment more than anything else. His old man was one of my favorite players.

iving Lundqvist, or Quick or Rask a long term deal would be a mistake? They added the years to lower the cap hit. So they could do other things.

If they so mismanage the cap, how have they afforded the most expensive defense in the League?
- MJL

Thats why I said there are only very few goalies that deserve those deals. Have Rask, Quick or Lundqvist been given 9 year deals at 30?

Honestly, I dont think there is a team in the league right now that would sign Hank for a 7-8 year deal at 5.8 mil... Its TOO dangerous. You are investing a ton of money and time in a guy who could teak a hip and be a shell of his former self. Thats bad cap management. And it bit the Flyers in the ass.

The fact that they have the most expensive defense in the league is 100% proof of cap mismanagement.

Straka and Hagg demoted as soon as the season starts giving the Flyers $1.825 million in cap space to call up (for example) PEB and Lauridsen.

FORWARDS
Brayden Schenn ($2.500m) / Claude Giroux ($8.275m) / Jakub Voracek ($4.250m)
R.J. Umberger ($4.600m) / Vincent Lecavalier ($4.500m) / Wayne Simmonds ($3.975m)
Matt Read ($3.625m) / Sean Couturier ($1.750m) / Jason Akeson ($0.900m)
Michael Raffl ($1.100m) / Scott Laughton ($0.863m) / Zac Rinaldo ($0.750m)
Petr Straka ($0.925m) /
DEFENSEMEN
Kimmo Timonen ($2.000m) / Braydon Coburn ($4.500m)
Nicklas Grossmann ($3.500m) / Mark Streit ($5.250m)
Andrew MacDonald ($5.000m) / Luke Schenn ($3.600m)
Chris Pronger ($4.941m) / Robert Hagg ($0.925m)
GOALTENDERS
Steve Mason ($4.100m)
Thomas Greiss ($1.750m)
BONUS OVERAGE
$345,000
------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(estimations for 2014-15)
SALARY CAP: $69,000,000; CAP PAYROLL: $73,924,762; BONUSES: $1,712,500
CAP SPACE (23-man roster): -$4,924,762
- Feanor

I dont want to hear anymore of Jason Akeson. Never gonna be a star or whatever anyone thinks he might be. Kid is just a phantom. period

Seemed like a fairly solid draft from everything I've read. Pretty safe, not many reaches. I've seen draft grades from C+ to B+.

Good to see some legit defensive prospects in the pipeline. Flyers could be set up nicely on the backend in 3-4 years.

Not sure what to expect tomorrow, Hextall is going to have to get creative to improve the team.
- PLindbergh31

EMS was on standby for snider when the news broke that the flyers would be keeping their 1st rounder again and attempt to develop another D prospect

Sanheim a Penguins fan?

- FlyersGrace

Flyers drafted him to spite Penguins....then Penguins drafted Kapanen to spite Flyers....

I feel like you are forgetting trades. That's where your real world analogy doesn't make sense to me. The Flyers will chase who they feel will make the team better. And if requires a trade, they'll do that. It's not ideal but it is possible.
- FlyersGrace

Being in desperate straits gives a ridiculous amount of leverage to the other team in any trade, though:

Upshall + 2nd --> Carcillo,
Gagne --> Walker,
etc

I dont want to hear anymore of Jason Akeson. Never gonna be a star or whatever anyone thinks he might be.
- GOA88

I don't think anyone (anymore, at least) thinks he's gonna be a star.

I think Berube's trust in him in the playoffs showed the guy can play at this level, despite some holes in his game. He will also have the advantage of playing on a cheap contract.

Yea, but how can you trade a guy with a horrible contract and walk out on the good side of things?

They were in such a bind a few years ago that they traded Gagne + for Matt Walker. Before that it was Upshall + for Carcillo. In between we had to trade the center pieces of our franchise (and two time cup winners) Carter and Richards so that we could sign (yes MJL, I know that they COULD have still signed Bryz) Bryz to a ridiculously long term deal, only to buy him out. Then after a break out year, the Flyers give a longggg deal to a pretty one dimensional power winger, only to make a lateral move to save a few years on that deal. Now we are looking to move Vinny because he is holding us back on the ice and in the cap world.
- jak521

All choices. They could've left Briere on LTIR and left Giroux in the minors. What's the end result? They made the Flyers better. Isn't that what matters? It's not mismanagement.

In reality they are not more restricted then any team in the NHL.

Here is something that I have to repeat every year. Capgeek does not give the true numbers in the off season. They give an estimate of the season based on what players they think will be on the team. They state this on their site.

So if you just look at capgeek, you don't know the exact numbers.

The Flyers aren't doing things any differenty then a lot of teams are in the NHL.

Quick question. What is the Flyers upper limit going to be this upcoming season?
- MJL

Let me get this straight.. The Flyers GM openly states that they are in a bind because of the Cap, openly admits that they are exploring options with Vinny, traded Hartnell and states that those two years will be important going forward.... But they have no issues with their cap?

Flyers drafted him to spite Penguins....then Penguins drafted Kapanen to spite Flyers....
- Streit2ThePoint

Those BASTARDS!

/shakes fist

I love Belgian whites. Haven't had the shock top but am a big fan of allagash white
- funmaster18

Love me some Belgian whites!