I agree. Couturier still plays more minutes. I believe Vinny has more to offer and is tougher to replace at center than Grossman is at D.
- mickel25

You have to be careful in moving Grossmann. I am sure mason likes the fact he blacks so many shots and can be a crease clear so he can see the puck. It is ok to move him but you better have enough size to replace him. Can't get too small on the back end.

If two people have a 100 dollars to spend in a store. One guy goes in and picks out all that he wants to buy, and spends 98 dollars.
The other guy goes in, picks out all he wants to buy, and only spends 88 dollars. The guy who spent 98 dollars mismanaged his money? Or did he just already spend most of his allotment. And has less to spend the next time he goes in the store?
This idea that because the Flyers don't have a ton of cap space, means that they mismanaged the cap, is false.
- MJL

My only problem with the VL signing is that it seemed like they signed him specifically because they thought he would flourish in Lavi's system. However, since they fired Lavi only 3 games in, I think its safe to say that he was on a short leash to begin with. With that in mind, I think the signing of VL was a poor decision.

It's not so much cap mismanagement as it was asset mismanagement and a failure to think things through.

I would much rather sign Setoguchi since his skating is way better than Heatley's.

Let's get quicker, not slower.
- Feanor

Gooch is fast as hell, but he doesn't have much of an idea of where he should be skating to. I think they'd get more out somebody who's a little bit more versed positionally, and more responsible.

Of course, he'd still be a helluva lot more useful than Heatley, lol.

And if the kid from the Phantoms that has been plugged into the lineup is overwhelmed, and the Coaching staff has to limit his minutes, and other teams take advantage of that player. And it's a downgrade defensively from Grossmann. Using Lecavalier properly is going to cancel that out? I doubt it.
There is no reason to move Grossmann. They don't have to do that to keep Lecavalier.
- MJL

I agree that they do not need to move Grossman to keep Vinny. Grossman has a $3.5mil cap hit. He could be moved for a 4th round pick or perhaps better. You free that money from your cap and go get MDZ or someone (whomever you prefer) else.

I used Grossman because he seemed like the easiest piece to trade without having to retain salary or offer a draft pick just to take him. If they could move Vinny straight up for a draft pick I would do that also.

I just think Vinny has more to offer this team than Grossman. I also think Grossman can be replaced easier than Vinny.

Looking at the contracts given out yesterday I would say having Lecavalier at 4.5 Mill per is a good price. Now its up to Berube to find a place for him where he can succeed.

Pouliot 4 Mill
Stastny 7 mill
Bolland 5.5 Mill
Hemsky 4 Mill

Some are choosing to spin this as a blessing. I'd rather have the cap room and make the intellegent, informed decision not to get caught up in this player or that player. Instead we really couldnt get involved in much at all.

And yes, we have the overage to spend just under 5mil. But if you signed a player and then couldn't move Vinny now you're forced to dump a Matt Read or combination of players to regain that cap room. And that has to be in the back of the Flyers head.
- hereticpride

The Flyers can spend some money without having to dump Lecavalier. Or another player such as Read. They are certainly limited in what they can do, due to the cap space they have. But they already signed Emery. Hextall says they're in on another player. Pierre LeBrun said they were in on Brad Richards. And Bill said they might have been in on Boyle. They still have about 3M to play with. That's not a lot, but it's not this dire death cap situation that it's made out to be. And if they can move Lecavalier, they'll have even more. But that's a question then of what's still available. And if not, well then they can do other good things such as maybe bank some space for a change. Stay out of LTIR, and maybe fit in some of that bonus money for Timonen, so there is less potential for an overage.

Gooch is fast as hell, but he doesn't have much of an idea of where he should be skating to. I think they'd get more out somebody who's a little bit more versed positionally, and more responsible.

Of course, he'd still be a helluva lot more useful than Heatley, lol.
- Tomahawk

Hexy's plan is for more responsible play, so I think you're onto something here.

Looking at the contracts given out yesterday I would say having Lecavalier at 4.5 Mill per is a good price. Now its up to Berube to find a place for him where he can succeed.
- GOA88

2nd line center in Nashville sounds about right. I still feel this deal gets done now that the 2million has been paid. Nashville was very quiet yesterday and with not getting a center at all I think they come back and look at Vinny now.

Vinny for Stalberg.

Book it

2nd line center in Nashville sounds about right. I still feel this deal gets done now that the 2million has been paid. Nashville was very quiet yesterday and with not getting a center at all I think they come back and look at Vinny now.

Vinny for Stalberg.

Book it
- J35Bacher

Vinny for Stalberg would be good. Stalberg can skate like the wind. Maybe a change of scenery will help him find the net.

Ott will be a guy who moves all around the lineup and sees time on all four lines at different junctures of the season. It helps that he can play any forward position. Although he's never been a scorer per se, he can fill a role with the right linemates if pressed into top-six service.
- bmeltzer

Question... Is he fast, and how well does he play on our end of the ice (PK?)? Hexy is pushing for fast two-way guys. I assume Ott wouldn't be on the list if he couldn't do these things.

Up and down the lineup...
Ott-Giroux-Voracek
Ott-Schenn-Simmonds
Ott-Coots-Read
or Ott on the fourth line...

2nd line center in Nashville sounds about right. I still feel this deal gets done now that the 2million has been paid. Nashville was very quiet yesterday and with not getting a center at all I think they come back and look at Vinny now.

Vinny for Stalberg.

Book it
- J35Bacher

I'll go for that

My only problem with the VL signing is that it seemed like they signed him specifically because they thought he would flourish in Lavi's system. However, since they fired Lavi only 3 games in, I think its safe to say that he was on a short leash to begin with. With that in mind, I think the signing of VL was a poor decision.

It's not so much cap mismanagement as it was asset mismanagement and a failure to think things through.
- BiggE

I talked about this yesterday in how the Flyers have to operate moving forward. I don't believe the Flyers should stay out of the free agent market, or sit back and wait for young players to develop. But they have to make smart moves, and moves that fit how the team wants to play moving forward. The biggest mistake that Holmgren made last year, was not firing Laviolette in the off season. And it was almost a disastrous decision. A player like Lecavalier was added because they felt he was a fit at the time. Changed coaches with a different style of play, and the fit changed. That's what they have to avoid. Makes moves, but make the right moves. The last few big free agent signings haven't been the right moves.

If two people have a 100 dollars to spend in a store. One guy goes in and picks out all that he wants to buy, and spends 98 dollars.
The other guy goes in, picks out all he wants to buy, and only spends 88 dollars. The guy who spent 98 dollars mismanaged his money? Or did he just already spend most of his allotment. And has less to spend the next time he goes in the store?
This idea that because the Flyers don't have a ton of cap space, means that they mismanaged the cap, is false.
- MJL

You forgot to mention that Mr. 88 cents managed to buy everything he needed to keep his family happy and fed... meanwhile, Mr. 98 cents had to resort to putting his new Murcielago on Craigslist to make ends meet.

I agree that they do not need to move Grossman to keep Vinny. Grossman has a $3.5mil cap hit. He could be moved for a 4th round pick or perhaps better. You free that money from your cap and go get MDZ or someone (whomever you prefer) else.

I used Grossman because he seemed like the easiest piece to trade without having to retain salary or offer a draft pick just to take him. If they could move Vinny straight up for a draft pick I would do that also.

I just think Vinny has more to offer this team than Grossman. I also think Grossman can be replaced easier than Vinny.
- mickel25

Moving Grossmann to add DelZotto would be a big mistake. The defense already has 3 players who aren't very physical in MacDonald, Timonen, and Streit. Adding a 4th would not be a good idea.

Vinny for Stalberg would be good. Stalberg can skate like the wind. Maybe a change of scenery will help him find the net.
- mickel25

Stalberg stinks.

You forgot to mention that Mr. 88 cents managed to buy everything he needed to keep his family happy and fed... meanwhile, Mr. 98 cents had to put his new Murcielago on Craigslist to make ends meet.
- Tomahawk

If one guy later finds out he made the wrong choices in what he bought. That again is not poor money management. It's just making poor decisions on what product to by, or that the product turns out to be different then what he thought it was. Then he has the ability to go back and see if he can exchange one product for another. And there is no such thing as Mr. 88 cents or anyone else being completely happy with every choice. Because they all make mistakes.

Is "edge" code for stupid penalties?
- Feanor

Yes Hartnell did take stupid penalties ( way too many last year) but " edge" is someone who can get in your face and hopefully use it to their teams advantage and play a regular shift,

Moving Grossmann to add DelZotto would be a big mistake. The defense already has 3 players who aren't very physical in MacDonald, Timonen, and Streit. Adding a 4th would not be a good idea.
- MJL

They would have $2.26mil in space at that point. MDZ is not the only FA defenseman left. There are quite a few options that are younger, cheaper and just as physical as Grossman if that is your sole reason for keeping him.

If one guy later finds out he made the wrong choices in what he bought. That again is not poor money management. It's just making poor decisions on what product to by, or that the product turns out to be different then what he thought it was. Then he has the ability to go back and see if he can exchange one product for another. And there is no such thing as Mr. 88 cents or anyone else being completely happy with every choice. Because they all make mistakes.
- MJL

Some guy yesterday said it best.... if management is all about making choices, isn't making the wrong choices by definition mismanagement?

Moving Grossmann to add DelZotto would be a big mistake. The defense already has 3 players who aren't very physical in MacDonald, Timonen, and Streit. Adding a 4th would not be a good idea.
- MJL

Agreed, moving Grossmann and replacing him with MDZ hurts the PK as well, as both MDZ and Streit are guys you aren't going to use to kill penalties.

IMO, at a cap hit of 3.5M, Grossmann is a solid, valuable part of the D

They would have $2.26mil in space at that point. MDZ is not the only FA defenseman left. There are quite a few options that are younger, cheaper and just as physical as Grossman if that is your sole reason for keeping him.
- mickel25

Such as who? Give me some names?

Some guy yesterday said it best.... if management is all about making choices, isn't making the wrong choices by definition mismanagement?
- Tomahawk

So basically, what you are saying is that any time I go out and buy something I think is a good product, but it turns out to be the wrong product or that product breaks or is defective, I have mismanaged my money?

Some guy yesterday said it best.... if management is all about making choices, isn't making the wrong choices by definition mismanagement?
- Tomahawk

Only if you assume that all of the choice are wrong. Heck, even LA has some contracts that I bet they'd like to renegotiate (Mike Richards being the top one). The Voynov extension's also looking like a bit too much payment. Every organization has contracts that don't work out or that are too high/long.

Some guy yesterday said it best.... if management is all about making choices, isn't making the wrong choices by definition mismanagement?
- Tomahawk

That would be player personnel or drafting mismanagement. Not cap mismanagement. There is no question that the Flyers in the past, have not done a good job in drafting and developing defenseman. That is a legitimate criticism. That Holmgren made a big mistake, in not firing Laviolette in the off season, and then signed a player in Lecavalier, that might not be a fit now under Berube, is a legitimate criticism. But none of that is cap mismanagement.

So basically, what you are saying is that any time I go out and buy something I think is a good product, but it turns out to be the wrong product or that product breaks or is defective, I have mismanaged my money?
- MBFlyerfan

Or you bought a product that you thought you would like, and then found out later that you don't like it. You have mismanaged your money?