Would make sense, it's been discussed by send fans in the past as well...
- LouSens

Only other thing I could think of is a trade for Vinny but I wouldn't include a prospect like prince only to get him in return

Tough environment given the financial cloud hanging over the Senators. Trust me it will get worse before it gets better. Agents are essentially accountants with law degrees. Melnyk makes them very nervous and it is easier just to avoid Ottawa.

The good news is that Murray is taking the opportunity to reshape the team. Young, big, fast. I like the team and they will be competitive next year. The finances will get fixed. They always do. Melnyk will be gone and this team will be very, very good.

Remember, Ottawa actually did more than the LA Kings this summer.
- spatso

Yeah, but why would the kings do anything? They're Stanley cup champions as is...

Only other thing I could think of is a trade for Vinny but I wouldn't include a prospect like prince only to get him in return
- Pegullaville

Unless it's a bigger deal.

Tough environment given the financial cloud hanging over the Senators. Trust me it will get worse before it gets better. Agents are essentially accountants with law degrees. Melnyk makes them very nervous and it is easier just to avoid Ottawa.

The good news is that Murray is taking the opportunity to reshape the team. Young, big, fast. I like the team and they will be competitive next year. The finances will get fixed. They always do. Melnyk will be gone and this team will be very, very good.

Remember, Ottawa actually did more than the LA Kings this summer.
- spatso

the LA kings shouldnt really have to do anything....thats a silly example...

the finances will get fixed if melnyk sells the team...hopefully he does...but he doesnt seem to be in a hurry for that

Yeah, but why would the kings do anything? They're Stanley cup champions as is...
- LouSens

Resigning Gaborik was a big deal and he got a decent cap hit other them that they didn't really have much holes to fill

Hey, here's the deal. Lots of people are focused on the negative aspects of the team right now. But honestly, who knows what might happen this year? I think expectations for a team this young and inexperienced should be tempered, they aren't a Stanley Cup contender for sure, but it's not as though they won't be an entertaining team. Karlsson alone is worth the price of admission, I expect the goalies to bounce back, and they'll probably score a bunch of goals on their own. How that blueline progresses...that's a big question mark. But I don't think they're as pathetic as some of y'all do. I don't think they'll be in the hunt for McDavid, although now that the draft lottery runs the way it does, all you need to do to win it is have a little skin in the game. They might not have as much in it as you think though. Just sayin', a little bit of optimism wouldn't kill this fanbase. Too much focus on finances and star players walking, and not nearly enough focus on what this team could actually do with the players they do have.

On the subject of Lecavalier...you could do worse. He won't cost much, he'll insulate the C position, and he's not DONE. He is 34, and he's not a PPG player like he was in the prime of his career anymore, but he's still a completely useful player that would be a good dressing room guy and on-ice secondary contributor. If they manage to get him, I suspect that Murray will be also acquiring a d-man from the Flyers, and Philly will be taking back a prospect and a budget roster player. It won't be Greening I don't think, part of the reason why the Flyers want to move Lecavalier is because of his salary and cap hit, so Greening doesn't offset it enough. The dman I think the Flyers might be willing to part with is Grossman, and honestly I think based on salary vs usefulness, he's probably the guy Ottawa would be most interested in as well.

So, would Philadelphia do:

Lecavalier
Grossman

for

Hoffman
Prince
2015 2nd round

Remember that Philadelphia is doing this to move salaries, not bodies. Their blueline already has Timonen, MacDonald, Streit, Coburn, Schenn. Grossman is a loss but the cap space they gain might be enough to allow them to do something else.

Also, I think Greening goes to Chicago for a draft pick at some point.

So, if something like that happened, then Ottawa goes into next year with 4 lines that look like this:

MacArthur-Turris-Ryan
Michalek-Lecavalier-Chiasson
Lazar-Zibanejad-Stone
???-Smith-Condra

That ??? is a spot that could be filled by a number of guys in the system. Grant, Pageau, Puempel, Dzingel, Dziurzynski....I think Ryan Dzingel is a dark horse to make the team. He had a great final season in the NCAA, and might fill out that 4th line reasonably.

Anyways, the point is, I don't think Ottawa would struggle to score with those lines...it remains to be seen what happens on the blueline. I do expect Cowen and Wiercioch to be better this year.

I don't know any better than anyone else regarding how this season is going to play out, but I don't think focusing on the doom and gloom of the ownership and budget is worthwhile.
- the_terror

Serious question here, a rarity on HB. How is that Durzinski guy? Has he rebounded and gained full health? That was horrific to watch.

PPG, age, and Ryan's new contract (wherever he signs it), are all very comparable.

I agree the Giroux has a better attitude and leadership, but with a cap friendly addition to the sens side, I think it could get done.

Ryan (extended)
Cowen

Giroux
- BetterThanWork

Just stop...they aren't trading giroux guys a top 10 forward in the nhl

One thing flyers wont do is give a pick or a decent prospect in order to deal vinny. Flyers will eat salary yes, and won't expect much of anything back. The flyers don't need to deal him to get under the cap

i know that you copied this from another thread, but i'll answer here too.

i never once said i wanted murray to acquire sharp, in fact i spoke strongly against that deal, simply based on the fact that bringing him in, at the cost of lazar (not smith) didn't make sense.

the issue i (and gord) took with what you wrote was that you FLAT OUT said that trading Zach Smith for Patrick Sharp was a fair deal. market be dammned, there is no (frank)ing chance that smith on his best day is worth half of patrick sharp. if you can't realize that, then i'm sorry, but you're way out to lunch.
- sensarmy_11

I take it your pretending just not to understand.

In the end it is the market that determines the value. A player is worth what the market actually pays. Spezza is worth what Dallas actually paid. You might disagree but that is reality.

Remember the original proposal was Smith, Greening and Lazar for Sharp. Nobody is going to include Lazar. Chicago wants a #3 center... Smith. They want cap saving so Greening at $2.5m does not help them. So, essentially your talking about Smith and Sharp being the core pieces of the deal. Fine you want add marginal sweeteners to make it look better. But the deal is essentially Sharp for Smith.

Serious question here, a rarity on HB. How is that Durzinski guy? Has he rebounded and gained full health? That was horrific to watch.
- walshyleafsfan

My understanding is that his health is back, but he was never going to be much more than a 4th line grinder if he did make a NHL team anyways. He is what he is.

One thing flyers wont do is give a pick or a decent prospect in order to deal vinny. Flyers will eat salary yes, and won't expect much of anything back. The flyers don't need to deal him to get under the cap
- Just5

for something like greening and the flyers eat some moneys....id probbaly be totally on board with that

Serious question here, a rarity on HB. How is that Durzinski guy? Has he rebounded and gained full health? That was horrific to watch.
- walshyleafsfan

i think hes back to 100%...i dont think he would ever be a full time NHL player...a 4th line guy at best...

but yeah he had a moderately decent year last season in Bingo...26 points or something..

for something like greening and the flyers eat some moneys....id probbaly be totally on board with that
- TheMike12

Ugh. I would guess hexy would keep himand try again next summer. What can greening do well? Anything?

My understanding is that his health is back, but he was never going to be much more than a 4th line grinder if he did make a NHL team anyways. He is what he is.
- the_terror

Actually just announced today that he signed a new 2 year 2 way contract.

Ugh. I would guess hexy would keep himand try again next summer. What can greening do well? Anything?
- Just5

he skates pretty fast...and hes big...and makes less money than vinny i think...haha...

Ugh. I would guess hexy would keep himand try again next summer. What can greening do well? Anything?
- Just5

Skate, and beat the hell outta Luke Schenn

for something like greening and the flyers eat some moneys....id probbaly be totally on board with that
- TheMike12

Not happening. Flyers indicate they might take back money but they actually works against their end purpose. They want cap relief. Obviously, if Greening were included and the Flyers took back $2m in salary they would have had no reduction in the cap.

Flyers have to do a big and real hockey deal (like Brayden Schenn) and tuck LaCavalier into the package in order get something done.

1st line players: Turris, Mac, Ryan
2nd line players: ?..... Zibanejad (IF he plays as I expect), Chaisson (hope)
Michalek - either a semi-effective two-way 2nd line winger or an under-producing chip in 15-20g 3rd liner PK.
3rd line players: Hoffman, Stone, Greening, Lazar (2nd line potential)
4th line players: Neil, Condra,
Reserve bottom 6: Pageau, Grant

1st pairing Dmen: Karlsson
2nd pairing Dmen: Cowen (not consistent), Methot, Ceci (not there yet)
3rd pairing Dmen: Phillips, Weircioch
6th Dmen: Gryba, Boroweici

1st line players: Turris, Mac, Ryan
2nd line players: ?..... Zibanejad (IF he plays as I expect), Chaisson (hope)
Michalek - either a semi-effective two-way 2nd line winger or an under-producing chip in 15-20g 3rd liner PK.
3rd line players: Hoffman, Stone, Greening, Lazar (2nd line potential)
4th line players: Neil, Condra,
Reserve bottom 6: Pageau, Grant

1st pairing Dmen: Karlsson
2nd pairing Dmen: Cowen (not consistent), Methot, Ceci (not there yet)
3rd pairing Dmen: Phillips, Weircioch
6th Dmen: Gryba, Boroweici
- AlfieisKing

i think if there a player coming out of philly is viny, or matt read that had amazing chemistry in the world cup with turris.

1st line players: Turris, Mac, Ryan
2nd line players: ?..... Zibanejad (IF he plays as I expect), Chaisson (hope)
Michalek - either a semi-effective two-way 2nd line winger or an under-producing chip in 15-20g 3rd liner PK.
3rd line players: Hoffman, Stone, Greening, Lazar (2nd line potential)
4th line players: Neil, Condra,
Reserve bottom 6: Pageau, Grant

1st pairing Dmen: Karlsson
2nd pairing Dmen: Cowen (not consistent), Methot, Ceci (not there yet)
3rd pairing Dmen: Phillips, Weircioch
6th Dmen: Gryba, Boroweici
- AlfieisKing

If he scored 15-20 goals on the third line he wouldn't be underproducing

Not happening. Flyers indicate they might take back money but they actually works against their end purpose. They want cap relief. Obviously, if Greening were included and the Flyers took back $2m in salary they would have had no reduction in the cap.

Flyers have to do a big and real hockey deal (like Brayden Schenn) and tuck LaCavalier into the package in order get something done.
- spatso

Not to mention Greening is probably a more effective hockey player then Vinny is.

Ottawa: Vinny, 2nd 2015
Philly: Condra, that guptill guy and (phill put eats 1 million of salary)

i think if there a player coming out of philly is viny, or matt read that had amazing chemistry in the world cup with turris.

- Hockeyanalysis8

Mac-Turris-Matt read
mm9-Zbad-ryan
Stone-lazar-Chaisson
condra-smith-neil

LW Depth - - - - Center Depth - - - - RW Depth
MacArthur - - - - - - - Turris - - - - - - - - Ryan
Michalek - - - - - - - Zibanejad - - - - - - Chaisson
Greening - - - - - - - Lazar* - - - - - - - - - Neil
Puempel*- - - - - - - Hoffman - - - - - - - - Condra
Prince* - - - - - - - - Pageau - - - - - - - - - Stone*

L-Dmen - - - - - - - - R-Dmen
Methot - - - - - - - - Karlsson
Cowen* - - - - - - - - Ceci
Phillips - - - - - - - - Weircioch
Boroweirci - - - - - - Gryba
Johnson - - - - - - -
Englund*

*can/willmove up in the depth chart

I think it would have to be the Dallas 2nd.

And I will say this, with the 12 forwards I laid out, I don't see room for Hoffman on the roster. So including him shouldn't matter much to Ottawa, especially since they've still got enough prospect depth to backfill his minutes.

Keeping prospects indefinitely isn't wise. If a guy doesn't stand to be an impact for your team, or is getting squeezed out by the numbers game, then you shouldn't be afraid to move him to shore up other positions. Hoffman is good enough to warrant a one-way deal and be on a NHL roster, but Ottawa can't find a spot for him in their lineup, and I don't suspect they'll be able to in the near future either, not with the guys I just laid out. So you move him to improve your blueline and your secondary scoring with a couple of experienced players. Not a bad move at all.
- the_terror

Moving Hoffman is stupid right now, because he's worth nothing to other teams and still has high-end potential.

If he sees some success at the NHL level, and then gets pushed by other guys we have in the system, it makes sense.

But right now he's worthless, and then he might go on to become a good second line 50 point guy, making it a horrible deal for whatever piece parts he might net.

And really, we have no forward depth anymore, despite what people say.

Neil/Greening are buyout or trade candidates, Michalek is probably done after this deal is up, and other than Lazar none of the guys we have left in the minors look like totally safe bets to be NHL players.

Prince, Pageau, Puempel are all big question marks. Zib, Turris, Lazar, Stone, Hoffman will be on the team.

Who's left? Nobody, that's who.

LW Depth - - - - Center Depth - - - - RW Depth
MacArthur - - - - - - - Turris - - - - - - - - Ryan
Michalek - - - - - - - Zibanejad - - - - - - Chaisson
Greening - - - - - - - Lazar* - - - - - - - - - Neil
Puempel*- - - - - - - Hoffman - - - - - - - - Condra
Prince* - - - - - - - - Pageau - - - - - - - - - Stone*

L-Dmen - - - - - - - - R-Dmen
Methot - - - - - - - - Karlsson
Cowen* - - - - - - - - Ceci
Phillips - - - - - - - - Weircioch
Boroweirci - - - - - - Gryba
Johnson - - - - - - -
Englund*

*can/willmove up in the depth chart
- AlfieisKing

I would hate to see Lazar saddlebagged by those two. I know it is just a example, but the Sens did that to Zibby and then complained he was not where they expected him progression wise.