This!!
- mochoson

Too bad I only look at corsi and not anything else.

It's not the end all, be all, but I don't see how trading a good possession player for a bad possession play will help the team at 5v5.

I guess the Flyers need to try harder, the coach needs to create the perfect line combinations and the system needs to fit the players better. Oh, and more truculence is needed!
- PhillySportsGuy

It probably won't, but I do think Hextall has a plan and it's based on being a better skating, more disciplined team.

Yup. You have to really dig in and use the full array of numbers, as well as those of teammates to get a full picture. And yeah, they're not perfect. But I'd rather watch a guy play AND see the underlying numbers because it paints a more full picture.
- Jsaquella

Too bad I only look at corsi and not anything else.
- PhillySportsGuy

(i've reduced most responses to emoticons for the rest of the day because beer)

It probably won't, but I do think Hextall has a plan and it's based on being a better skating, more disciplined team.
- Jsaquella

The Flyers are relying heavily on their PP and PK to be very good again. I think they have the capable players to be top 10 in both categories, but it is a risky way to win

so why all this noise about the Flyers needing to move Vinnie?
- Dkos

Because we've always gone with option 1. And nobody reads.

I know it's late but I present the opening roster for the Flyers under option 2. And it only costs about 5 thousand dollars in cap space that we'd get from Pronger's contract... ironically making the Umberger trade relevant.

CAPGEEK.COM ARMCHAIR GM ROSTER
CapGeek Armchair GM Roster
FORWARDS
R.J. Umberger ($4.600m) / Claude Giroux ($8.275m) / Jakub Voracek ($4.250m)
Michael Raffl ($1.100m) / Vincent Lecavalier ($4.500m) / Wayne Simmonds ($3.975m)
Jay Rosehill ($0.675m) / Brayden Schenn ($2.500m) / Matt Read ($3.625m)
Zac Rinaldo ($0.750m) / Sean Couturier ($1.750m) / Petr Straka ($0.925m)
Pierre-Edouard Bellemare ($0.600m) /
DEFENSEMEN
Kimmo Timonen ($2.000m) / Andrew MacDonald ($5.000m)
Mark Streit ($5.250m) / Braydon Coburn ($4.500m)
Luke Schenn ($3.600m) / Nicklas Grossmann ($3.500m)
Shayne Gostisbehere ($0.925m) / Nick Schultz ($1.250m)
GOALTENDERS
Steve Mason ($4.100m)
Ray Emery ($1.000m)
BUYOUTS
Daniel Briere ($0.000m)
Ilya Bryzgalov ($0.000m)
LTIR
Chris Pronger ($4.941m)
BONUS OVERAGE
$345,000
------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(estimations for 2014-15)
SALARY CAP: $69,000,000; CAP PAYROLL: $68,995,000; BONUSES: $1,995,833
CAP SPACE (23-man roster): $5,000

We can have up to 23 players and once we send Ghost and Straka or Bellamare back for Akeson or whomever we want on the two-way deals, we'll have about 1 mil to play with. Oh ignore the lineups, this opening roster is just about maximizing our cap space.

New Cap Geek game. Putting Pronger on LTIR and using two-way players on the current roster, get as close to the cap as possible without going over. Max number of Roster players is 23 and Pronger does not count. Go!

Giroux was hurt the first 15 games of this year. Thats the team we are without Giroux.
- FlyersSteve118

That is not a fair statement. Yes G was hurt but the entire team was struggling too. Lavy's system did not work and it took some time to adjust to Berube's system. I think the team could survive without Giroux. I feel Lecavalier would thrive if G got hurt.

It probably won't, but I do think Hextall has a plan and it's based on being a better skating, more disciplined team.
- Jsaquella

I'm not sure Hartnell was merely traded just because of the term of his contract. Could it be to get rid of a team leader who maybe wasn't buying into the system the coach and current GM want?

Ideally, it would have been nice to just get a draft pick back for him, but the reality is the deal could only be completed bad contract for bad contract. I'm pretty sure Hexy was still in the organization when Umberger arrived. So I'm assuming there is a comfort level with him.

The Flyers are relying heavily on their PP and PK to be very good again. I think they have the capable players to be top 10 in both categories, but it is a risky way to win
- PhillySportsGuy

Absolutely; they might have to fake it this year as the young players assume more responsibility and the young defenders get experience and coaching in the AHL, but I can see them being a better skating team, better at 5v5, fairly soon

I'm not sure Hartnell was merely traded just because of the term of his contract. Could it be to get rid of a team leader who maybe wasn't buying into the system the coach and current GM want?

Ideally, it would have been nice to just get a draft pick back for him, but the reality is the deal could only be completed bad contract for bad contract. I'm pretty sure Hexy was still in the organization when Umberger arrived. So I'm assuming there is a comfort level with him.
- ravishingone

Hartnell's role was going to be reduced(no more top line) and he didn't like it. a disgruntled player with a bad contract who holds all the cards do to his no trade clause just won't bring a quality return. See VL, although VL isn't disgruntled. Yet.

Keep it up guys!

Keep it up guys!
- Giroux_Is_God

emb11d will wear number 11

Absolutely; they might have to fake it this year as the young players assume more responsibility and the young defenders get experience and coaching in the AHL, but I can see them being a better skating team, better at 5v5, fairly soon
- AllInForFlyers

They've moderately upgraded in that area. They moderately upgraded in terms of discipline too. I'm just not sure they've upgraded enough to offset the difference of Hartnell and Umberger.

emb11d will wear number 11
- Crimsoninja

Always loved that number. Makes you look lean and tall.

emb11d will wear number 11
- Crimsoninja

.....but this one goes to eleven...

They've moderately upgraded in that area. They moderately upgraded in terms of discipline too. I'm just not sure they've upgraded enough to offset the difference of Hartnell and Umberger.
- PhillySportsGuy

Who says there is anything to offset? Maybe Shartnell has a terrible season, maybe Umberger thrives?

Past stats tell us we have the worst goaltending in the entire league and should prepare for a #1 pick, that isn't necessarily true is it?

Let's let the season do the talking versus conjecture.

So if Vinny is gonna go, Edmonton is probably the only spot left that could really be interested, no?

Hartnell's role was going to be reduced(no more top line) and he didn't like it. a disgruntled player with a bad contract who holds all the cards do to his no trade clause just won't bring a quality return. See VL, although VL isn't disgruntled. Yet.
- jstross

I think we're basically writing the same thing. Hartnell was assistant captain. Leadership involves doing what is best for the team. If Hartnell was upset with being asked to change, he had to go. Vinny last year, wasn't happy with his role on the 4th line, but actually didn't even hint at being disgruntled publically.

So if Vinny is gonna go, Edmonton is probably the only spot left that could really be interested, no?
- mochoson

I doubt Vinny waives for Edmonton.

Always loved that number. Makes you look lean and tall.
- PhillySportsGuy

i guess. i was hoping he'd get to keep 21 if they trade Thad. #foppa

I doubt Vinny waives for Edmonton.
- Consequence

......we haven't gotten that far yet bud

We can't even asked Vinny how he feels about a destination until we have one. I'm starting doubt we have any options at all.

They've moderately upgraded in that area. They moderately upgraded in terms of discipline too. I'm just not sure they've upgraded enough to offset the difference of Hartnell and Umberger.
- PhillySportsGuy

They're relying heavily on Coots, B. Schenn, and Mason to continue to take steps forward. I have no problem with relying on these guys to pull more weight. It was the expectation when all three of these guys were acquired. They have enough experience and are young enough to be able to take on more responsibility.

I'm not sure Hartnell was merely traded just because of the term of his contract. Could it be to get rid of a team leader who maybe wasn't buying into the system the coach and current GM want?

Ideally, it would have been nice to just get a draft pick back for him, but the reality is the deal could only be completed bad contract for bad contract. I'm pretty sure Hexy was still in the organization when Umberger arrived. So I'm assuming there is a comfort level with him.
- ravishingone

Yeah, Hexy was here when Umberger was previously.

I think there were underlying factors besides contract length, too. I agree with what you have here.

Whats the deal with the Mueller guy. How come he wasn't in the NHL last year?

Giroux was hurt the first 15 games of this year. Thats the team we are without Giroux.
- FlyersSteve118

G had 7 points in that time. It isnt like he wasnt playing at all.