If a player brings down the numbers of his defense partners which Amac did in every pairing, I think that is telling. He passed my initial eye test, but when I specifically looked at things like gap control and neutral zone play he failed my eye test as well.
- aflyerpower8

That would be true if the two defenseman were on the only players on the ice, but that is not the case.

I'll ask a simple question. If MacDonald was paired with either Doughty or Voynov, and played on the LA Kings, what do you think would happen with his Corsi numbers?

Randy Jones
- Jsaquella

If a player brings down the numbers of his defense partners which Amac did in every pairing, I think that is telling. He passed my initial eye test, but when I specifically looked at things like gap control and neutral zone play he failed my eye test as well.
- aflyerpower8

yeah. that is a stat taht i will put a little weight in if it holds true.

although maybe my bias towards thinking luke schenn is overrated is shining through here, but i thought he played his best hockey with amac

That is not the case, he has to be back far to be able to angle the player to the outside on that play. There is a lot of ice there, with no back pressure. One step up in the wring direction, and he's easily beaten to the outside.

You're ignoring what even the author states which was that MacDonald was knocked down earlier on the play. Again, where is the back pressure and the 5 man unit. Gap control is a team responsibility.
- MJL

I don't want him to step up, I want him to go back closer to his man. If he steps up Nash beats him, but if he was closer to Nash he can back skate at Nash's speed. Also, Nash did not have the puck initially, so it makes the pass harder if he is on him. Yes, he fell down, but by picture 2 he is already backskating to maintain a rather large cushion.

Likely the biggest understatement of the day made on the interwebs. You win.


- wolfhounds

hell yeah.

ill make a fine troll just yet. you wait and see.

That would be true if the two defenseman were on the only players on the ice, but that is not the case.

I'll ask a simple question. If MacDonald was paired with either Doughty or Voynov, and played on the LA Kings, what do you think would happen with his Corsi numbers?
- MJL

His would be higher, Doughty's would be lower.

hell yeah.

ill make a fine troll just yet. you wait and see.
- stayinthefnnet

Having goals in life is important.

Also, Coburn sucks, we should just give him to the Pens... Addition by way of subtraction and all that jazzy stuff.

No Lecavalier interest over there, even for Mike Green?
- SuperSchennBros

Apparently they don't want to move Green. I have not heard anything about them wanting Vinny.

Edit: With your repost, it looks like I replied before you asked the question.

I don't want him to step up, I want him to go back closer to his man. If he steps up Nash beats him, but if he was closer to Nash he can back skate at Nash's speed. Also, Nash did not have the puck initially, so it makes the pass harder if he is on him. Yes, he fell down, but by picture 2 he is already backskating to maintain a rather large cushion.
- aflyerpower8

The pass to Nash is not the only play. If he steps up, there is also a play to put the puck in the corner, or towards the net for Nash to skate into. MacDonald was properly positioned on that rush to keep the angle on Nash, who was purposely skating wide to create space in an effort to get wide. If MacDonald takes a step up there, he's dead meat. That's how fast a defenseman can get beat in the NHL. One wrong stride or hesitation.
And the pictures don't tell how fast he was backskating. When he fell down, he's certainly not going to skate forward on the play, then he would have to execute an inside or outside turn, that in itself could cause him to get beat to the inside or outside pretty easily.

Having goals in life is important.

Also, Coburn sucks, we should just give him to the Pens... Addition by way of subtraction and all that jazzy stuff.
- wolfhounds

nah he totally blows. they just got rid of engelland. dont need another paperweight.

nah he totally blows. they just got rid of engelland. dont need another paperweight.
- stayinthefnnet

It's true. He should take up curling.

But seriously, he'd probably suck at that, too.

F'n big nose.

It's true. He should take up curling.

But seriously, he'd probably suck at that, too.

F'n big nose.
- wolfhounds

nope. far too of an aggressive game for him. he has no snarl

Having goals in life is important.

Also, Coburn sucks, we should just give him to the Pens... Addition by way of subtraction and all that jazzy stuff.
- wolfhounds

sure coburn for matta

His would be higher, Doughty's would be lower.
- aflyerpower8

His would definitely be higher. Doubt very seriously that Doughty's would be lower. The reason that it would change at all is because Corsi is a poor statistic for looking at individual players due to false data. And MacDonald, just as any player would, would benefit from playing with a top partner such as Doughty, and with a strong possession team such as LA.
Players Corsi numbers are affected by who they play with. And the data used to compile a players Corsi stats is a team number, not an individual number.

The pass to Nash is not the only play. If he steps up, there is also a play to put the puck in the corner, or towards the net for Nash to skate into. MacDonald was properly positioned on that rush to keep the angle on Nash, who was purposely skating wide to create space in an effort to get wide. If MacDonald takes a step up there, he's dead meat. That's how fast a defenseman can get beat in the NHL. One wrong stride or hesitation.
And the pictures don't tell how fast he was backskating. When he fell down, he's certainly not going to skate forward on the play, then he would have to execute an inside or outside turn, that in itself could cause him to get beat to the inside or outside pretty easily.
- MJL

No steps up. Just watch any other Flyers defenseman's gap throughout the game and no one plays with as much of a cushion as Amac. That includes Grossmann and Schenn who are not fleet of foot.

No steps up. Just watch any other Flyers defenseman's gap throughout the game and no one plays with as much of a cushion as Amac. That includes Grossmann and Schenn who are not fleet of foot.
- aflyerpower8

I disagree with that. Also those players have been with the team longer, and are more comfortable with how the team plays. It's not uncommon for there to be an adjustment period for a player with a new team. And there is a much larger sample size. This upcoming season, he'll have a full training camp, and should be more acclimated.

His would definitely be higher. Doubt very seriously that Doughty's would be lower. The reason that it would change at all is because Corsi is a poor statistic for looking at individual players due to false data. And MacDonald, just as any player would, would benefit from playing with a top partner such as Doughty, and with a strong possession team such as LA.
Players Corsi numbers are affected by who they play with. And the data used to compile a players Corsi stats is a team number, not an individual number.
- MJL

The Corsi stats I'm looking at are relative numbers compared to others on the same team.

The Corsi stats I'm looking at are relative numbers compared to others on the same team.
- aflyerpower8

The same false data issue applies. All players are not playing in the same situations, and with the same teammates. It's a bad stat for looking at individual players.

sure coburn for matta
- 2Real

youve done nothing but tell me how much he sucks. now you want me to part with one of the more promising young defenders in the league for him?

youve done nothing but tell me how much he sucks. now you want me to part with one of the more promising young defenders in the league for him?
- stayinthefnnet

and you've done nothing but defend him and say how you wish he gets injured and you won't take him ?

AMac- the contract is a bit overvalued. But my major issue with it was the assets we had to give up to get him at the deadline. He was not going to put the team over the top to compete for a Cup. Trading a 2nd and a 3rd to sign him to an inflated deal just doesn't sit well.

I think Hexy will pick and choose spots like that more carefully, instead of giving up the middle rounds of our future drafts for Dmen like Streit, Macdonald, who can be had at the same price on UFA day.

The same false data issue applies. All players are not playing in the same situations, and with the same teammates. It's a bad stat for looking at individual players.
- MJL

In that case, every stat is biased/inadmissible. I take what I see from the stats (Corsi, QoC) and see if it plays itself out on the ice, and for Amac they do.

AMac- the contract is a bit overvalued. But my major issue with it was the assets we had to give up to get him at the deadline. He was not going to put the team over the top to compete for a Cup. Trading a 2nd and a 3rd to sign him to an inflated deal just doesn't sit well.

I think Hexy will pick and choose spots like that more carefully, instead of giving up the middle rounds of our future drafts for Dmen like Streit, Macdonald, who can be had at the same price on UFA day.
- Just5

He wasn't signed as a deadline player to put the team over the top. And you don't know that they could've been had for the same price on UFA day, or that they wouldn't have signed with somebody else instead.

In that case, every stat is biased/inadmissible. I take what I see from the stats (Corsi, QoC) and see if it plays itself out on the ice, and for Amac they do.
- aflyerpower8

I think the commentary on the pictures says otherwise. Not every stat, some are good, some are bad. Corsi improves over standard +/- as there is more of a sample size. But it has the same fatal flaw of false data. Corsi is a lot more reliable and relevant as a team stat. In which the false data issue is removed.

and you've done nothing but defend him and say how you wish he gets injured and you won't take him ?
- 2Real

okay injured was harsh. i dont actually want him to be hurt. but i really think fans that just label him as garbage should have to watch the flyers without his services for a nice stretch. it will be pretty horrific. no he isnt weber, but he is expected to do a hell of a lot for the team. he at least breaks even his fair share.

I would gladly take him on virtually any team i would hypothetically be in charge of, but given the roster makeup for the pens, he isnt so much of a fit for need that i would be willing to part with Maatta for him.

Not wanting to part part with what I consider to be a very valuable piece for something else does not necessarily dictate that the item for sale is garbage.

I would not give you a 20 dollar bill for a 10 dollar bill, but that doesnt mean the ten dollar bill suddenly becomes worthless.