that last part. 100 percent.

realistically though. not to sound haughty, but i think regardless of the glaring issues, the team should make the postseason.

what they do when they get there defines the season. and im not foolish enough to think cup or bust. but, there are different ways to lose. i understand the end results are the same, but bowing out in a hard fought 7 game series to boston is something that as a fan sucks but you can accept. the past few postseasons however...
- stayinthefnnet

I think the pens will run away with the division again. I think they need to find a way to play more of a playoff style game in the regular season. It will help eliminate bad habits. I think the worst thing that can happen to them is if they jump out to another big early lead in the division

well. fleurys deal will be up then.
- stayinthefnnet

Bill Meltzer is a god

yup.

i think ehrhoff puts up 50/60 points this year, and leaves in the offseason on a 5 year deal with a significant raise. from another team of course.
- stayinthefnnet

60 points is a lot for a team with so much offensive talent on the back end.

60 points is a lot for a team with so much offensive talent on the back end.
- PhillySportsGuy

well. niskanen is now gone. letang is typically due to miss 35 percent of any given season.

he also has a hell of a shot, and good distribution skills.

if they rework their powerplay to where it isnt ridiculously counter intuitive, i think he should be in line to rack up the points.

if you get 80 games out of him, id realistically slot him in the mid 50s.

60 points is a lot for a team with so much offensive talent on the back end.
- PhillySportsGuy

He's not getting 60 points next season...

40+.

He's not getting 60 points next season...

40+.
- wolfhounds

I'd say this is more realistic. If he hits 50, it'll be outstanding. That being said, I still think he's going to have a solid season overall.

There's no straw man -- on what basis is it that the Bruins erred by trading Seguin, then?

Regular season failure? Postseason failure? Failure to account for the future/giving up on the player too soon?

I didn't have to invent anything -- there's only so many reasons why it could be an error to have traded Seguin, and none of them hold any water when the team performed as well as Boston did without the guy!

You can't hide behind "they gave up their future" when you don't know which Tyler Seguin is going to show up this season, not take into account what Reilly Smith and Matt Fraser could or will do, and Loui Eriksson could rebound to his statistical norms after a tough season -- because of all the players in the deal, Eriksson does have a track record.

Hell, you want to talk about straw men, you were the one who threw out the "they might have to trade Eriksson."

You inserted the part about Boston having to search for a winger because of Iginla's overages -- not me. So why bring that up, then?
- AllInForFlyers

They simply didn't get enough of a return for a player that is one of the best players in the League, and is a player that a team can build around.
And again, I'm reading that we don't know that Seguin will continue to play as well, when there is zero basis for thinking that he won't. Other then he might not. Not exactly a strong position to take.
Saying they might have to trade Ericksson is not a straw man. They might have to because of cap issues.
Even is Reilly Smith, Ericksson and Fraser play well, they still got the worse of the deal in my opinion. Seguin is an elite player.

Bill -
Can you shed some light on whats up with Jake DeSerres ?
thanks

I'd say this is more realistic. If he hits 50, it'll be outstanding. That being said, I still think he's going to have a solid season overall.
- WarriorHockey21

Yup, it'll be very good. Here are last season's top point producing defensemen:

http://www.nhl.com/ice/pl...&status=&viewName=summary

Ehrhoff, based on last season's numbers, is going to become a top 3 offensive d-man in the league?

Bill -
Can you shed some light on whats up with Jake DeSerres ?
thanks
- MrBigglesworth

bills busy

I wouldn't be embroiled if it wasn't a case of somebody always "inventing straw men" and "engaging in hyperbole" when there are solid arguments against everything that is being said on his end.
- AllInForFlyers

That he might not play well, And that there might be off ice issues in the future. And that I offered an opinion on how I think the Flyers should operate going forward, is not a solid arguement on the Seguin trade.

I'd say this is more realistic. If he hits 50, it'll be outstanding. That being said, I still think he's going to have a solid season overall.
- WarriorHockey21

i just dont see letang playing anywhere close to a full season. if he does, then he will eat into those totals.

but he is the first person with a legitimate shooting threat they have put back there in a while.

10 to 12 goals is a fair estimate to me.

Yup, it'll be very good. Here are last season's top point producing defensemen:

http://www.nhl.com/ice/pl...&status=&viewName=summary

Ehrhoff, based on last season's numbers, is going to become a top 3 offensive d-man in the league?
- wolfhounds

granted, i am making quite an assumption saying you are getting a full 82 out of him. that can be a leap of faith for any player to say in july.

but he has had years in vancouver with 10 plus goals and 40 assists.

with niskanen gone. pouliot and maatta not going to be healthy/ready, and letang likely due to get injured (again, an assumption i admit). he should see significant opportunities on the powerplay. secondary assists will be bountiful.

Yup, it'll be very good. Here are last season's top point producing defensemen:

http://www.nhl.com/ice/pl...&status=&viewName=summary

Ehrhoff, based on last season's numbers, is going to become a top 3 offensive d-man in the league?
- wolfhounds

Buffalo vs. Pittsburgh really isn't a fair comparison. He's going to have a much better season on Pitt than bottom feeder Buffalo last season.

BTW, based on last seasons numbers, 50pts would put him in the top 10. Which I believe he could reach on Pittsburgh. Heck, he had 33 on Buffalo. Top 3 Dman... I don't see that, and I didn't say that... I just think he's going to have a really good season with Pitt.

I guarantee his +/- will be much better this season too. I wouldn't be surprised if he's at least a +15 or 20.

granted, i am making quite an assumption saying you are getting a full 82 out of him. that can be a leap of faith for any player to say in july.

but he has had years in vancouver with 10 plus goals and 40 assists.

with niskanen gone. pouliot and maatta not going to be healthy/ready, and letang likely due to get injured (again, an assumption i admit). he should see significant opportunities on the powerplay. secondary assists will be bountiful.
- stayinthefnnet

No doubt it's possible, just like it's possible for Streit to get 50+ points on the Flyers' first PP unit, but not likely. Still, it could happen if everything clicks, and Ehrhoff will definitely be busting his ass to throw up a bunch of points because as a 32 year old, he's not going to take another 1 year deal but rather is going to look to cash in on this coming season's performance.

Why do you think Letang will miss time, the heart issue, or just random injuries?

[quote=WarriorHockey21]
i think his seasons in vancouver are much more of a comparable.

a season of 12 goals and 40 assists is extremely possible.

i think his seasons in vancouver are much more of a comparable.

a season of 12 goals and 40 assists is extremely possible.
- stayinthefnnet

Without a doubt... especially with the way Pitt moves the puck.. and how often they go on the PP *cough cough*

No doubt it's possible, just like it's possible for Streit to get 50+ points on the Flyers' first PP unit, but not likely. Still, it could happen if everything clicks, and Ehrhoff will definitely be busting his ass to throw up a bunch of points because as a 32 year old, he's not going to take another 1 year deal but rather is going to look to cash in on this coming season's performance.

Why do you think Letang will miss time, the heart issue, or just random injuries?
- wolfhounds

the latter.

im far from a cardiologist, and im sure you cant take it all at face value, but by all means it seems to be taken care of. but even if you entirely write that off, its hard to discount the fact that overall he has just been a very fragile player.

it would definitely be best for the team if they were both there and firing on all cylinders. ehrhoff in a secondary role and letang being the player he can be would put the team in the best possible spot. but its just hard for me to bank on either a full healthy year from letang and/or paul martin not being moved.

ehrhoff is going to be gunning for points with his one year deal. and i think he is going to get all the opportunities he can handle to prove it.

and for what its worth, should timonen not have been resigned, i think streit would have been in line to push 50 as well.

Without a doubt... especially with the way Pitt moves the puck.. and how often they go on the PP *cough cough*
- WarriorHockey21

haha yeah yeah. not gonna touch that one.

but the way the have organized their PP has been infuriating anyway.

but from all ive seen, ehrhoff looks like an ideal quarterback for it should they decide to organize it in a more fluid manner.

Buffalo vs. Pittsburgh really isn't a fair comparison. He's going to have a much better season on Pitt than bottom feeder Buffalo last season.

BTW, based on last seasons numbers, 50pts would put him in the top 10. Which I believe he could reach on Pittsburgh. Heck, he had 33 on Buffalo. Top 3 Dman... I don't see that, and I didn't say that... I just think he's going to have a really good season with Pitt.

I guarantee his +/- will be much better this season too. I wouldn't be surprised if he's at least a +15 or 20.
- WarriorHockey21

I was working off the 60+ point total to put him in the top 3.

50 points would be excellent, no doubt about it. And still difficult to get.

Doughty only had 37 points last season. It will be very interesting to see what Ehrhoff gets. I just find it unlikely, after the excellent season Niskanen had last year, that Ehrhoff comes in and blows that away point-wise.

Talking Rynas to Dallas and Margate elephants. If he has anything Flyers related to say I'll post. It's unwatchable by the way.
- mayorofangrytown

Ok. Thanks

The bold part made me laugh

haha yeah yeah. not gonna touch that one.

but the way the have organized their PP has been infuriating anyway.

but from all ive seen, ehrhoff looks like an ideal quarterback for it should they decide to organize it in a more fluid manner.
- stayinthefnnet

New coach...things are definitely going to be different for the Pens this coming season.

I was working off the 60+ point total to put him in the top 3.

50 points would be excellent, no doubt about it. And still difficult to get.

Doughty only had 37 points last season. It will be very interesting to see what Ehrhoff gets. I just find it unlikely, after the excellent season Niskanen had last year, that Ehrhoff comes in and blows that away point-wise.
- wolfhounds

wellll to be fair, i did say 50-60

the doughty example is a good one, but i think it is just largely attributable to the style the kings play.

doughty and kopitar both would see SIGNIFICANT increases elsewhere in my mind.

New coach...things are definitely going to be different for the Pens this coming season.
- wolfhounds

thats the hope anyway.

he is saying all the right things. but talk doesnt necessarily guarantee a thing.