Yeah. I think a lot of STH aren't really hockey educated. They have money to spend and just think hockey is shoot, score, hit.
- J35Bacher

/sigh

All you message board guys are keyboard cowboys who have no real stake in the team or the game.

Am I doing this right?

Bill, do you see any similarities between Timonen (Kimmo, not Jussi) and Petterson? Timonen doesn't really play with an edge, but isn't afraid to engage physically either, although I wouldn't call him a "sparkplug." But aside from the size issues, I don't know how the rest of his game is aside from my brief views of him in the WJC.

Yeah. I think a lot of STH aren't really hockey educated. They have money to spend and just think hockey is shoot, score, hit.
- J35Bacher

You think correctly.

Part of the issue is/was in the wake of the Pronger injury and after the Carter/Richards deals, Holmgren tried to keep the team as competitive as possible and spent a lot of draft picks, as well as money, to do so.

The rub some of us have with the defense is that the process the Flyers use generally is to run out and set the market, rather than be patient and see what falls through. For example, they signed MacDonald long before UFA opened, and as a result they didn't even really utilize the week of "legal" talks to negotiate with other pending UFAs to get a feel for what they were seeking or worth.

I feel there were several pending UFAs that were similar to MacDonald and a lot of them, if not all, signed for either less AAV or term or both. Some may say that MacDonald got market price, which is fair, but it was also akin to the Flyers deciding that they would set the market and decided this guy was so much better than all the other options, that he had to be paid.

Trouble is, while MacDonald is definitely better than some of the options, he's not so much better that he's worth the extra years or money. Given the crop of UFAs it's definitely possible had they waited they could still have gotten a decent guy for a better price.

Yes, that last sentence is opinion, just because "somebody else" may have a different opinion, mine is not automatically incorrect.
- Jsaquella

for sure....if pronger had been injured first then the asking price for richards and carters would have changed into addressing defense. i would suggest that given the almost total lack of D in the system holmgren could have partially addressed it anyway, but he didn't. as far as mac donald goes, you're probably right but at that time, given the fragility of the D corps i think they reacted once they saw him come in and stabilize the situation some.

Fantastic blog (as always, but this was especially good). Very informative. Thank you!

Really all that matter is what the Flyers opinion is. And if they felt that MacDonald was the right fit for them, then they made the right decision. If he's overpaid, it's only slightly. And as the cap goes up, his cap hit will get cheaper and cheaper as salaries escalate.
- MJL

If all that matters is the flyers' opinion then why are we here?

If all that matters is the flyers' opinion then why are we here?
- Just5

The same reason that people go to Church. It's not like they can influence what the mythical cloud man will/won't do.

Why do you say primadonna? Because he sees he might not got a shot at playing? I consider that smart. Chicago has lots of roster spots already taken. He is 22 not 18. Myabe he just wants to look at a place where he can maybe get more of a role and more ice time. He isn't going to be making any different money because every team can offer the same amount.
- J35Bacher

Its more of a sense of entitlement at least from what hawks fans tell me.

Its more of a sense of entitlement at least from what hawks fans tell me.
- moylander

Could also be some jealousy/animosity from those same fans. Remember how people on here were freaking out when Ghost didn't sign mere minutes after winning the championship?

Also, per your avatar, I want a "SIMMER UP" shirt.

for sure....if pronger had been injured first then the asking price for richards and carters would have changed into addressing defense. i would suggest that given the almost total lack of D in the system holmgren could have partially addressed it anyway, but he didn't. as far as mac donald goes, you're probably right but at that time, given the fragility of the D corps i think they reacted once they saw him come in and stabilize the situation some.
- hogweed

That's fine. I feel it was too big a commitment to hand to a guy who has shown he struggles as a top pair guy playing against top competition-remember when Carle was signed by Tampa, people howled at the money and term, but they are OK giving basically the same deal to MacDonald who isn't as good and has been proven to have more limitations than Carle.

Really all that matter is what the Flyers opinion is. And if they felt that MacDonald was the right fit for them, then they made the right decision. If he's overpaid, it's only slightly. And as the cap goes up, his cap hit will get cheaper and cheaper as salaries escalate.
- MJL

I have never been satisfied by this claim. It is an open ended invitation to never evaluate the cap hit of any deal. It is frankly put, bullocks.

That's fine. I feel it was too big a commitment to hand to a guy who has shown he struggles as a top pair guy playing against top competition-remember when Carle was signed by Tampa, people howled at the money and term, but they are OK giving basically the same deal to MacDonald who isn't as good and has been proven to have more limitations than Carle.
- Jsaquella

If Carle had hit UFA this year, he would have gotten more than he did 2 offseasons ago.

I just hope that if they have a playoff run, like in 2008, they realize what it is and don't double down and trade kids or other assets to immediately make the team "stronger".
- Jsaquella

This roster, as it stands right now...I don't know that I'd really feel that it has the upside of the 2008 team, which, looking back, was pretty effing talented. I just don't see any objective observer looking at what the team does this year as an indicator of future performance, positive or negative.

I think they're going to win their fair share of games, and I think they could/should make the playoffs.

But I also think most people realize that this roster, as it is right this minute, still needs a couple of pieces that an ill-advised trade won't fix.

They're close, I think, but not the kind of close that free agency or a asset-depleting trade is going to solve.

I think this roster just needs time and patience, development from the defense prospects in the hopes that one or two can break through quickly. If one or two of them do, it changes the entire dynamic of the team, I feel, because you can allocate those dollars we currently have locked into the defense to address maybe a forward spot or two that will REALLY get this team where it needs to be.

This year should be a good, solid year. But next year, the year after...I think Hextall knows that patience is the best thing for this roster right now.

He also could be saying that to make sure if anyone is reading that they know they have to earn it and no one is penciled in. I think if they have great camps and push someone out then they will stay with the big club.
- J35Bacher

We'll see. I think it's more like berube as the coach wants all options available to him. While management is taking a long term view and will send him down if there's no spot available in the top 9. Which I don't expect there to be one.

Their making it sound like a 4th line 8-10 minute role is unacceptable. So he would have to head and shoulders beat out guys like raffl and b schenn in camp, which isn't going to be easy

That's fine. I feel it was too big a commitment to hand to a guy who has shown he struggles as a top pair guy playing against top competition-remember when Carle was signed by Tampa, people howled at the money and term, but they are OK giving basically the same deal to MacDonald who isn't as good and has been proven to have more limitations than Carle.
- Jsaquella

Timing is everything is the cliche, but pretty darn true in this case.

Its more of a sense of entitlement at least from what hawks fans tell me.
- moylander

People see entitlement. I see a kid trying to make the best decision for his career. Don't we all try to make the best decisions for our future. His justs includes millions more than mine.

If all that matters is the flyers' opinion then why are we here?
- Just5

The Flyers opinion will be proved right or wrong over time. It's extremely moronic to say that the team is right and leave it at that.

This is the same team that was "right" about Vincent Lecavalier & Ilya Bryzgalov.

I have never been satisfied by this claim. It is an open ended invitation to never evaluate the cap hit of any deal. It is frankly put, bullocks.
- coffee junkie

I agree. The term is the biggest issue for me. He's just not proven enough to be locked in like that

If Carle had hit UFA this year, he would have gotten more than he did 2 offseasons ago.
- jmatchett383

Very possible. I am mainly talking about term. two summers ago, people were ecstatic that the Flyers didn't give Carle 6 years. Now, it's no big deal that MacDonald did.

Could also be some jealousy/animosity from those same fans. Remember how people on here were freaking out when Ghost didn't sign mere minutes after winning the championship?

Also, per your avatar, I want a "SIMMER UP" shirt.
- jmatchett383

You simmer down now
http://youtu.be/NG0PHeYyuks

/sigh

All you message board guys are keyboard cowboys who have no real stake in the team or the game.

Am I doing this right?
- johndewar

Are you saying I am wrong for saying that about some of the STHs? Some might be really educated and some might not. I do have a backround in the industry so i don't make the claim without having intereacted with some STHs of my own. Some really don't know the game and hold tickets like it is some status type of thing.

This roster, as it stands right now...I don't know that I'd really feel that it has the upside of the 2008 team, which, looking back, was pretty effing talented. I just don't see any objective observer looking at what the team does this year as an indicator of future performance, positive or negative.

I think they're going to win their fair share of games, and I think they could/should make the playoffs.

But I also think most people realize that this roster, as it is right this minute, still needs a couple of pieces that an ill-advised trade won't fix.

They're close, I think, but not the kind of close that free agency or a asset-depleting trade is going to solve.

I think this roster just needs time and patience, development from the defense prospects in the hopes that one or two can break through quickly. If one or two of them do, it changes the entire dynamic of the team, I feel, because you can allocate those dollars we currently have locked into the defense to address maybe a forward spot or two that will REALLY get this team where it needs to be.

This year should be a good, solid year. But next year, the year after...I think Hextall knows that patience is the best thing for this roster right now.
- AllInForFlyers

The main thing Hextall learned in LA seems to be that patience rarely hurts. The Kings were methodical building their team and then sprung the big moves when they felt they were truly close to a championship level team. Hextall realizes that and seems to be reviewing everything about the organization and seeing exactly where he feels they are.

Really all that matter is what the Flyers opinion is. And if they felt that MacDonald was the right fit for them, then they made the right decision. If he's overpaid, it's only slightly. And as the cap goes up, his cap hit will get cheaper and cheaper as salaries escalate.
- MJL

He'll be gone in a year

Very possible. I am mainly talking about term. two summers ago, people were ecstatic that the Flyers didn't give Carle 6 years. Now, it's no big deal that MacDonald did.
- Jsaquella

2 summers ago, we were also banking on either locking up Shea Weber for 800 years and hoping to grab Ryan Suter for 8. There were a few "elite" guys out there. If they still had Carle on the roster now, the only people crying about 6 years would be the Carle haters. Just a different landscape this offseason.

Are you saying I am wrong for saying that about some of the STHs? Some might be really educated and some might not. I do have a backround in the industry so i don't make the claim without having intereacted with some STHs of my own. Some really don't know the game and hold tickets like it is some status type of thing.
- J35Bacher

This is what you wrote:

Yeah. I think a lot of STH aren't really hockey educated. They have money to spend and just think hockey is shoot, score, hit.

You were pretty heavy handed with the broad brush there and I was just pointing it out.

I was glad to see you backpeddle a bit in this post when you said "some of the STHs", which I can't argue with.

Not every fan that goes to a game or every STH dives into the nooks and crannies of the game and wants to talk corsi and fenwick. Some want a night out to blow off steam and NHL hockey provides that outlet.