We can also discuss why the flyers were unable to sign Carle in season
- PhillySportsGuy

So. When you decide to throw gasoline onto a bonfire, do you use a premium grade or the Good Old 87?

Bill, do you see any similarities between Timonen (Kimmo, not Jussi) and Petterson? Timonen doesn't really play with an edge, but isn't afraid to engage physically either, although I wouldn't call him a "sparkplug." But aside from the size issues, I don't know how the rest of his game is aside from my brief views of him in the WJC.
- jmatchett383

It's funny, because Kimmo's offense didn't manifest itself against adults until 2-3 seasons after he was drafted... prior to that, his numbers looked a lot like Pitbull's. Of course, Pitbull was never a big scorer at the junior level either, but Kimmo's an example of the fact that you just never know what some of these late-round picks will turn out to be, until they actually turn out to be something.

If they can't move VL, I would re-sign Hall, waive Rosehill and go with the following:

Schenn-G-Jake
Raffl-VL-Read
Umberger-Couturier-Simmonds
PEB-Hall-Rinaldo or Akeson

I think Schenn can score 30+ goals if he replaces Hartnell on the top line and gets his time on the 1st pp unit.

Raffl and Read give Vinnie 2 wings that can both carry the puck, get it to him where he likes it and are both very good defensively.

The Couturier line should be able to get a very good cycle game going down low and though Simmonds needs to improve defensively, with Couturier and Umberger on the line, I'd match this line up against anyone.

Finally, I'd rather have Hall on my roster than Rosehill, and I'm pretty sure Hall won't cost any more than he did last year.

Thoughts?

I have to admit that I have not followed the Kane drama as well as I could but I am having a hard time seeing what everyone is so worked up about. He didn't openly say he wants to play in the Peg so it is gasoline on the fire? Really? This same thing happened with Bobby Ryan saying he was sick of all the rumours and no one (other then Brian Burke) held him over a fire. Maybe I'm missing some crucial points. I checked his twitter and didn't see anything terrible. What was the deal there?
- coffee junkie

Kane has become the focal point of the Winnipeg media. He's a young guy with cash, and he is a flashy guy. He pointed out that Johnny Manziel did some of the things he did-selfies with wads of cash, partying, etc-and he's celebrated while Kane is villified.

Is it racist? I don;t know, but it's rare to see the rest of the Jets criticized. It's always Kane and Byfuglien that I see getting ripped by the Winnipeg media. Never see a disparaging story about Bryan Little being a failed first rounder and being an average player.

But Byfuglein provides good play and he's fat and out of shape and doesn't care about defense. Kane scores a lot and he's an immature jerk. Burmistrov jumped to the KHL and he's the typical Russian.

It is odd. I don't want to play this card, but it does seem that the Don Cherry thing is going on. Andrew Ladd is the captain, good Canadian boy. Never hear his leadership questioned. But the Black dudes and the Russian guy...according to the Winnipeg MSM, they are they troublemakers.
- Jsaquella

Well i think I remember Burmistrov wanted a bigger role as he played fourth and 3rd line minutes but no PP or anything else and never slid into the top two lines.

Kane I think just needs a change of sceanry. I know it sounds easy but I think he is one of those guys that wants to be in a market like Philly, NY, Boston, LA. Just what I think by reading things. I think he is tired of not making the playoffs and beinng in Winnipeg.

It's funny, because Kimmo's offense didn't manifest itself against adults until 2-3 seasons after he was drafted... prior to that, his numbers looked a lot like Pitbull's. Of course, Pitbull was never a big scorer at the junior level either, but Kimmo's an example of the fact that you just never know what some of these late-round picks will turn out to be, until they actually turn out to be something.
- Tomahawk

The pitbull gif that was bandied around here a couple years ago seems appropriate

I have worries on character, too. However, when I look at Winnipeg and see how many guys that they have who are acting out and being villified as bad guys, I have to start wondering if the organization is bigger issue.
- Jsaquella

I don't think Winnipeg is a desirable place to play if you are an NHL player.
A change of scenery could be just what Kane needs. Coming to an organization like Philly where you know ownership wants to win, a current great core of players, and a new GM who seems to have great direction could help Kane become more focused

Well i think I remember Burmistrov wanted a bigger role as he played fourth and 3rd line minutes but no PP or anything else and never slid into the top two lines.

Kane I think just needs a change of sceanry. I know it sounds easy but I think he is one of those guys that wants to be in a market like Philly, NY, Boston, LA. Just what I think by reading things. I think he is tired of not making the playoffs and beinng in Winnipeg.
- J35Bacher

I do know, from reading the Winnipeg media, that Kane is frequently the target of the "What's wrong with the Jets" crew. That has to be grating to a young guy who is a damned good player.

If they can't move VL, I would re-sign Hall, waive Rosehill and go with the following:

Schenn-G-Jake
Raffl-VL-Read
Umberger-Couturier-Simmonds
PEB-Hall-Rinaldo or Akeson

I think Schenn can score 30+ goals if he replaces Hartnell on the top line and gets his time on the 1st pp unit.

Raffl and Read give Vinnie 2 wings that can both carry the puck, get it to him where he likes it and are both very good defensively.

The Couturier line should be able to get a very good cycle game going down low and though Simmonds needs to improve defensively, with Couturier and Umberger on the line, I'd match this line up against anyone.

Finally, I'd rather have Hall on my roster than Rosehill, and I'm pretty sure Hall won't cost any more than he did last year.

Thoughts?
- BiggE

Kane has become the focal point of the Winnipeg media. He's a young guy with cash, and he is a flashy guy. He pointed out that Johnny Manziel did some of the things he did-selfies with wads of cash, partying, etc-and he's celebrated while Kane is villified.

Is it racist? I don;t know, but it's rare to see the rest of the Jets criticized. It's always Kane and Byfuglien that I see getting ripped by the Winnipeg media. Never see a disparaging story about Bryan Little being a failed first rounder and being an average player.

But Byfuglein provides good play and he's fat and out of shape and doesn't care about defense. Kane scores a lot and he's an immature jerk. Burmistrov jumped to the KHL and he's the typical Russian.
- Jsaquella

its also the culture of Canadian hockey in general to look down on anyone that speaks out or self promotes.

I have never been satisfied by this claim. It is an open ended invitation to never evaluate the cap hit of any deal. It is frankly put, bullocks.
- coffee junkie

It's a lazy claim... cap is only growing by ~5% per annum... it's not like salaries as a whole can escalate any faster than that.

Some guys will break the bank and others will be forced to take a smaller piece of the pie than they deserve as a result.

If all that matters is the flyers' opinion then why are we here?
- Just5

To talk Hockey obviously. I'm not disillusioned to believe that in the big picture my opinion matters or is a factor in what the Flyers do, or how they operate.

Anyone interested in Burmistrov? I feel like he would be a solid young forward for the Courturier line. He has the skills and one of the Russians who actually plays d.
- J35Bacher

He actually developed into a pretty polished defensive player before he went home... he can play wing, too.

I'd love to add him, but isn't he already under contract for this season?

I do know, from reading the Winnipeg media, that Kane is frequently the target of the "What's wrong with the Jets" crew. That has to be grating to a young guy who is a damned good player.
- Jsaquella

Plus it has to be annoyinthat the GM rarley makes impact moves. We kill our front office but at lest we know they want to win now or in the future. Good or Bad. Chevy is so conservative that he never makes a move to give the team a jolt. I am sure Kane would love to be on the wing with Giroux over Little or Scheifle. Plus I think he would be appreciated here would i think could really bring the best out of him. Imagine his first gordie how hat trick againt the Penguins and he steam rolls crosby and fights Kuntiz after. It would be crazy.

That's fine. I feel it was too big a commitment to hand to a guy who has shown he struggles as a top pair guy playing against top competition-remember when Carle was signed by Tampa, people howled at the money and term, but they are OK giving basically the same deal to MacDonald who isn't as good and has been proven to have more limitations than Carle.
- Jsaquella

Carle is also not a top pairing defenseman. And I think it's wrong to say that MacDonald isn't as good as Carle is, or has more limitations than Carle. The only area where Carle is superior in my opinion, is in playmaking. But I think that MacDonald has some room for growth in that area.

He actually developed into a pretty polished defensive player before he went home... he can play wing, too.

I'd love to add him, but isn't he already under contract for this season?
- Tomahawk

He ws good defensivly. And had offensive skills. I think he he would be perfect compliment to Courturier line as the could match up against the best lines and still create offense.

I have never been satisfied by this claim. It is an open ended invitation to never evaluate the cap hit of any deal. It is frankly put, bullocks.
- coffee junkie

No, it's the opposite. It's actually part of evaluating the cap hit of a deal. When dealing with a 6 year term, how salaries will escalate is relevant. Sometimes deals are made where the realization is that in the first few years of the deal, it might be an overpayment, but down the line, it will become less and less, compared to what similar players will sign for down the line. That's part of cap management and understanding the cap.

Maybe I'm alone on this but I don't want to make the mistake of confusing who really built the Kings last two Stanley Cup winning teams, Ron Hextall or Dean Lombardi. Sure Hextall was in the mix and I'm sure he's learned a few things but let's keep a few things in mind.

The Kings haven't exactly feared making a big splash. They traded for Mike Richards the offseason before winning a Cup. They gave up on a home grown talent such as Jake Johnson who's bloomed nicely in Columbus to make another splash to get Jeff Carter less then a year later. One thing that's perfectly clear so far is Hextall isn't afraid to disagree with the GM ahead of him or before him but Marian Gaborik is another example of making a splash in exchange for success.

Now what's also key is to have key building blocks. Drew Doughty is a former 2nd overall pick. I cannot remember the last time we had such a high pick. To Hextall's credit he's just drafted Travis Sanheim who looks promising. The problem is he might be years away from being ready and we don't have much of a bridge gap until he's ready. Steve Mason and Anthony Schultz are younger then Johnathon Quick but goalies are tricky and unless you're the late 90's Red Wings or the new dynasty Black Hawks, teams cannot win the Stanley Cup with just really good goaltending. Goaltending has gotta be top notch. The best in the league.

The Flyers do have a pretty nice players in Claude Giroux, Wayne Simmonds, Luke Schenn, Brayden Schenn, Sean Couturier, Jake Voracek, Matt Read and Steve Mason. Scott Laughton looks like he's going to fit in well also. Outside of the Hartnell/Umburger trade, this still looks like Holmgren's team. The best way for Hextall to put his mark on this team is to get us another dominating player. Whether it might be a Malkin to Crosby on another line. Or a Kane to Toews who can play together. Or even a dominating defenseman who can play in all situations and can do all the right things. This is what we need.

I found this recap of last night's Flyers town hall meeting.

http://www.hockeyforums.n...-sth-townhall-2014-recap/

There's some pretty interesting stuff from Berube and Hextall.
- Feanor

Thanks for the link, love what I'm hearing from Hexy and Pryor, in particular.

The first questioner mentioned that we needed help at left wing and if we would go for someone like Morrow? Hexy basically said no way and that those days were over.

He basically said the plan is that we have a goalie and a good young offensive core in place and that we now need a good defense and that the cavalry is on the way in the pipeline and we all need to be patient during their development. He said he knows it is hard as we tend to be impatient as fans but we need to stick with it here. He said that he does care about today as well but we always need to be focusing on moves that are good for both today and tomorrow.

He says he never "annoints" young players into a spot. Hex says that they will need to earn their spots on this team and if not will have to play in the minors. He said that the minors and riding the busses around New England and not being on the charter flights and being pampered from the beginning is good for these guys. He said giving too much too soon to a 17 year old can ruin their careers and he cares about the players careers and also what is best for the team.

The Flyers opinion will be proved right or wrong over time. It's extremely moronic to say that the team is right and leave it at that.

This is the same team that was "right" about Vincent Lecavalier & Ilya Bryzgalov.
- Jsaquella

You badly missed the point. It's not about saying that they are right. It's about their thinking that this is the best player and the right fit going forward. So if they have to pay 500K more for who they think is the best play either now, or who they think has the best upside. Then our opinion as a fan that we think this player is an equal doesn't really matter, if they don't think that is the case. They obviously scouted and targeted MacDonald as the player they felt was the right fit.

Maybe I'm alone on this but I don't want to make the mistake of confusing who really built the Kings last two Stanley Cup winning teams, Ron Hextall or Dean Lombardi. Sure Hextall was in the mix and I'm sure he's learned a few things but let's keep a few things in mind.

The Kings haven't exactly feared making a big splash. They traded for Mike Richards the offseason before winning a Cup. They gave up on a home grown talent such as Jake Johnson who's bloomed nicely in Columbus to make another splash to get Jeff Carter less then a year later. One thing that's perfectly clear so far is Hextall isn't afraid to disagree with the GM ahead of him or before him but Marian Gaborik is another example of making a splash in exchange for success.

Now what's also key is to have key building blocks. Drew Doughty is a former 2nd overall pick. I cannot remember the last time we had such a high pick. To Hextall's credit he's just drafted Travis Sanheim who looks promising. The problem is he might be years away from being ready and we don't have much of a bridge gap until he's ready. Steve Mason and Anthony Schultz are younger still young then Johnathon Quick but goalies are tricky and unless you're the late 90's Red Wings or the new dynasty Black Hawks, teams cannot win the Stanley Cup with just really good goaltending. Goaltending has gotta be top notch. The best in the league.

The Flyers do have a pretty nice players in Claude Giroux, Wayne Simmonds, Luke Schenn, Brayden Schenn, Sean Couturier, Jake Voracek, Matt Read and Steve Mason. Scott Laughton looks like he's going to fit in well also. Outside of the Hartnell/Umburger trade, this still looks like Holmgren's team. The best way for Hextall to put his mark on this team is to get us another dominating player. Whether it might be a Malkin to Crosby on another line. Or a Kane to Toews who can play together. Or even a dominating defenseman who can play in all situations and can do all the right things. This is what we need.
- SuperSchennBros

Very true. If I could pick two guys i would love to add to this team it would be Zach Bogossian and Evander Kane. I think those two could really help transform this team. I know Bogossian's struggles but he is that posible number one guy and he is only 24. Kane on Giroux wing would be fun to watch.

Very possible. I am mainly talking about term. two summers ago, people were ecstatic that the Flyers didn't give Carle 6 years. Now, it's no big deal that MacDonald did.
- Jsaquella

It's very possible that those "people" realized their mistake and how the team missed Carle. MacDonald essentially replaces Carle.

What makes you think the flyers have salary cap issues bill?

Talking to some posters here you'd never think its an issue
- Just5

I think some of you sit around and obsess about a certain poster all day long just waiting for an opportunity to get in some passive aggressive dig at "some poster".

Give it a rest already.

Banking on and succeeding at doing so, are vastly different birds.

Let's look back at that summer, shall we? Suter was widely expected to end up with Minnesota. It wasn't like "Suter's ex-girlfriend lives in Minneosta and she's been calling him lately" but a pretty well known situation where Suter and Parise both wanted to play in Minnesota.

As for Weber, he was a RFA. For all the wonderful aspects of that, only TWO RFA hit with an offer sheet have left their original teams. One was Chris Gratton, the other was Dustin Penner. Both were disappointments and neither was a franchise type player.

Just because the Flyers were pursuing those guys, the reality is, they were not very likely to land either.

I mean, I'm pursuing financial independence and being able to spend my days fishing and drinking beer....but it's not likely to happen.
- Jsaquella

There is no doubt that Holmgren took a big risk there. But I think he felt the potential payoff risk was worth it. If they had landed Suter or Weber, it would've gone a long way to moving the team to a contender. They lost Carle in the process, but I'm okay with that. I want my team to try and make those moves.

Very true. If I could pick two guys i would love to add to this team it would be Zach Bogossian and Evander Kane. I think those two could really help transform this team. I know Bogossian's struggles but he is that posible number one guy and he is only 24. Kane on Giroux wing would be fun to watch.
- J35Bacher

These are the two names I can't seem to shake myself.