Ok, I actually laughed out loud at work, thanks jerk...

- FlyersGrace

His new name should just be Samuel CharaBuffPenner

Please post link to prove that Sterling is a human being or GTFO

And I'm waiting on the edge of my seat to hear the correct meaning to the above acronym
- coffee junkie

Do you think these pants make my butt look big

Wait...who just violated the CoC?

Me, I guess?

Who were they going to develop? They drafted Bourdon, Marshall and Sbisa then didn't have a pick in the first or second round for two yrs. We know what happened to those three guys. Holmgren acquired young Dmen the best way he could. They brought in Carle, Coburn, Parent and Alt. Two of them developed just fine and we're waiting on one.

He added Jason Smith, Pronger and Timmonen along with Mezaros, Grossman, Schenn, Streit and MacDonald. Once they maintained their picks he immediately started addressing the lack of depth on the back end. He took 3 in 2012 including Gostisbehere and took 4 the following year.

There hasn't been much to develop until recently if you look at it.
- mayorofangrytown

Many terrible years of drafting at least after round 1

Wait...who just violated the CoC?
- jmatchett383

I'm sorry was that story about hockey or anything Bill wrote about?

I'm sorry was that story about hockey or anything Bill wrote about?
- ob18

No more than when people discuss things like the World Cup of soccer or the Philadelphia 76ers, no.

I think the cap issues are overblown, and every June and July we get into the cap panic stages of the off season. Secondly, a large reason for having to overspend for defenseman was the injury to Pronger. And that wasn't anyone's fault. And I think you can definitely say that in the beginning of his tenure, they sacrificed some youth. But for the most part, since the trades of Carter and Richards, Holmgren has stuck with the young core that he built, and hasn't waverd from that. He also took the team from last overall to the Cup Finals.

Like I said, failure to draft and develop defenseman is a legitimate criticism that has hurt this team. And that happened under Holmgren's watch.
- MJL

Its interesting how GMs can go from pure genius to pure idiot in one season. Look at Stan Bowman, Dean Lombardi, and Ray Shero. Bowman was an idiot and would horde his players in the minors while the hawks fizzle out 2 seasons in a row, then his plan pans out and they win the cup a second time and hes a genius. When Staal was traded Shero was a hero - now? Lombardi got creamed for not trading Quick after a couple bad playoff runs while Bernier was pushing for the netminder job - he stayed unpopularly patient and voila - has a dynamite team that might win a 3rd SC in the near future. Holmgren was on top of the world in 2010 - now?

I do think Pronger was homers downfall. Had that injury not happened I think we'd be singing a different tune re: Homer. Heck, at $4.9 million Pronger would have been a steal if he was still playing.

Ok, I actually laughed out loud at work, thanks jerk...

- FlyersGrace

Good, keep them thinking you're weird and they will ask you to do less. That's my strategy

Its interesting how GMs can go from pure genius to pure idiot in one season. Look at Stan Bowman, Dean Lombardi, and Ray Shero. Bowman was an idiot and would horde his players in the minors while the hawks fizzle out 2 seasons in a row, then his plan pans out and they win the cup a second time and hes a genius. When Staal was traded Shero was a hero - now? Lombardi got creamed for not trading Quick after a couple bad playoff runs while Bernier was pushing for the netminder job - he stayed unpopularly patient and voila - has a dynamite team that might win a 3rd SC in the near future. Holmgren was on top of the world in 2010 - now?

I do think Pronger was homers downfall. Had that injury not happened I think we'd be singing a different tune re: Homer. Heck, at $4.9 million Pronger would have been a steal if he was still playing.
- moylander

Yea I agree. It wasn't that long ago where the talk was that there weren't any good defense prospects in the Organization. Now look, there's a boat load of quality defense prospects. Holmgren certainly wasn't a great GM, but he wasn't a bad one. He did far more good then bad, took the team to a Cup final, and built a quality core to move forward with. Now it just has to be tweaked and some final moves made. Which are the hardest to make.

Right now a lot of the fan base is all about being patient. But trust me, a couple of seasons of playoff disapointment. And Hextall will be a bum GM.

I'm sorry was that story about hockey or anything Bill wrote about?
- ob18

But it was about sports, a LA pro sports team. LA is where Carter and Richards play. Carter and Richards used to play for the Flyers. Flyers.

So Kyle Lowery is back with the Raptors. Good signing.
- mayorofangrytown

Please keep all posts related strictly to hockey and/or things discussed in Bill's blog.

Like I said, failure to draft and develop defenseman is a legitimate criticism that has hurt this team. And that happened under Holmgren's watch.
- MJL

He needed to use those draft picks in 2009 and 2010 to make a legitimate team out of what was staggering around on the ice at the time. That was his job.

In the mean time he completely reworked the scouting and development process. If you look at the young D he brought in via trades he tried to replace those lost picks. Coburn, Carle, Parent, Alt and Schenn. The players from 2007-2008 should be arriving by now but Sbisa is in Vancouver and Marshall and Bourdon didn't pan out. If you look at the rookie camp roster his drafting and developing D over the last 3 drafts looks pretty damn good.

Do you think these pants make my butt look big
- jmatchett383

Wow, I have learned so much from this thread today. Thank you

Yea I agree. It wasn't that long ago where the talk was that there weren't any good defense prospects in the Organization. Now look, there's a boat load of quality defense prospects. Holmgren certainly wasn't a great GM, but he wasn't a bad one. He did far more good then bad, took the team to a Cup final, and built a quality core to move forward with. Now it just has to be tweaked and some final moves made. Which are the hardest to make.
- MJL

"LIES!!!!" - Plind

He needed to use those draft picks in 2009 and 2010 to make a legitimate team out of what was staggering around on the ice at the time. That was his job.

In the mean time he completely reworked the scouting and development process. If you look at the young D he brought in via trades he tried to replace those lost picks. Coburn, Carle, Parent, Alt and Schenn. The players from 2007-2008 should be arriving by now but Sbisa is in Vancouver and Marshall and Bourdon didn't pan out. If you look at the rookie camp roster his drafting and developing D over the last 3 drafts looks pretty damn good.
- mayorofangrytown

I think Holmgren did a great job in trading and acquiring established NHL defenseman.

Wow, I have learned so much from this thread today. Thank you
- coffee junkie

Anytime. Now, I'm not saying that Pronger CAN'T make light butter...just that he'd never stoop to that level. But the guy can basically do whatever he wants, and Dean McAmmond will attest to that...or else.

Many terrible years of drafting at least after round 1
- ob18

When? 2010 and 2011 when they didn't have a pick until the 3rd? the two drafts before then when they took Sbisa, Marshall and Bourdon who all looked like pretty good picks at the time.

I haven't seen a lot of bad D prospects from the last three drafts. Prior to that you can't drop that solely in Holmgren's lap.

I'm sorry was that story about hockey or anything Bill wrote about?
- ob18

Yes, Sterling is a racist, yesterday we discussed how Peg media might be racist because they target Kane, Buff and Russians and not Little or Ladd. By pointing out that Sterling is worse then first thought we see that society is continuing to further crack and can not transform into the obvious multiracial and cultural meshing pot that it is becoming. More proof that the Peg's filled with bigots. Adding to the conversation from yesterday.

Everything is connected

I think Holmgren did a great job in trading and acquiring established NHL defenseman.
- MJL

Not saying a bad job, did the best he could with what he had and was up against some hardship AP.
But: Kabina, JVR for L Schenn, Walker, Vandermeer and Modry!

Sometime I think you work for the Flyers PR department but then I realise, yeah they could give a BLANk less about these threads. Then I cry myself to sleep

When? 2010 and 2011 when they didn't have a pick until the 3rd? the two drafts before then when they took Sbisa, Marshall and Bourdon who all looked like pretty good picks at the time.

I haven't seen a lot of bad D prospects from the last three drafts. Prior to that you can't drop that solely in Holmgren's lap.
- mayorofangrytown

This is a list of every defenseman drafted by the Flyers from 2000 - 2011. Not exactly a buncha Bobby Orrs in this bunch, but is that a failure of scouting/drafting or a failure of development? Giving up too soon? Probably a little of all of that.

Regan Kelly
Thierry Douville
David Printz
Dennis Seidenberg
Jussi Timonen
Jeff Woywitka
Nikita Korovkin
Joey Mormina
Rosario Ruggeri
Joni Pitkanen
Alexandre Picard
Travis Gawryletz
Chris Zarb
Micheal R.J. Anderson
John Flatters
Oskars Bartulis
Joonas Lehtivuori
Denis Bodrov
Michael Ratchuk
Kevin Marshall
Marc-Andre Bourdon
Luca Sbisa
Simon Bertilsson
Oliver Lauridsen
Ricard Blidstrand
Nick Luukko
Colin Suellentrop

Kevin Marshall
Marc-Andre Bourdon
Luca Sbisa
Simon Bertilsson
Oliver Lauridsen
Ricard Blidstrand
Nick Luukko
Colin Suellentrop
- johndewar

These are on Homlgrens watch:
One first who is playing in the NHL
Two seconds and one third
A fourth, a sixth and 2 sevenths.

These are on Homlgrens watch:
One first who is playing in the NHL
Two seconds and one third
A fourth, a sixth and 2 sevenths.
- mayorofangrytown

I was more pointing out that the Flyers have tried to draft defensemen.

So, it's not like they've overlooked the position. Maybe they haven't drafted the right guys in some cases. In other cases, it seems more like they either give up a bit too soon (Seidenberg, Pitkanen) or maybe they aren't doing a good job of developing and teaching.

Not saying a bad job, did the best he could with what he had and was up against some hardship AP.
But: Kabina, JVR for L Schenn, Walker, Vandermeer and Modry!

Sometime I think you work for the Flyers PR department but then I realise, yeah they could give a BLANk less about these threads. Then I cry myself to sleep
- coffee junkie

You can think I work for anyone you want to, but that doesn't amount to a hill of beans, and really doesn't have any relevance to the conversation. Vandermeer and Modry were minor deals. Walker I don't know why that was a problem. He was easily demoted and off the cap. Kubina got hurt. And certainly that was a bad deal. I'm not up in arms about the JVR for Schenn deal. I think they traded for a need, and I think JVR is overrated. And I think Schenn is a good player who hopefully can find some consistency and get even better.

This.

I don't get the JJ hate, really.
- johndewar

Gald I'm not alone

You can think I work for anyone you want to, but that doesn't amount to a hill of beans, and really doesn't have any relevance to the conversation. Vandermeer and Modry were minor deals. Walker I don't know why that was a problem. He was easily demoted and off the cap. I still don't know what happened with the whole Kubina thing, in how he never played for the team. And certainly that was a bad deal. I'm not up in arms about the JVR for Schenn deal. I think they traded for a need, and I think JVR is overrated. And I think Schenn is a good player who hopefully can find some consistency and get even better.
- MJL

What about a tiny mound of beans?