(frank)ing christ
- mochoson

Mueller? Come on Hexy

Really the point is that Superschennbros has at least provided some evidence both in terms of video, and in hit stats to the table to back up his opinion. And his opinion is called shortsighted. Well I haven't seen anything from the other side of the debate to back up the opinion that Hartnell is becoming less physical, other then the new catch word of "eye test". So who is shortsighted here? I don't think Hartnell's game has changed much in that regard at all.
- MJL

It's a debate of opinions. Only a few people on the board think they can win that type of debate, and I'm not one of them. Providing some video or saying Hartnell had more hits than Raffl - a side track - proves nothing.

His upside is higher, but most players never reach their upside. Couturier's upside is a 60+ point Selke winner. I think a Dubinsky type would be satisfactory. He's a legit #2 center who is a terrific defensive forward.
- PhillySportsGuy

I wouldn't say terrific, or even call him the best defensive center on his team. I think this deal just set him up to become very overrated in short order. I don't see Dubinsky being much different then the player Umberger is or was before his injuries last season.

I agree his skill-level is underrated, but he's not suddenly going to turn into a 50-60 point player, right? He primarily came up as a scorer, but hasn't been able to score... the part that's overrated are his shutdown ability and intangibles/leadership... I'm not paying a premium for either of those.
- Tomahawk

I hear you. I often remind myself it's hard for players to constantly be at the top of their games in all aspects when they are constantly injured.

As a former college player myself, and I'm sure anyone else whose played really any sport at a high level would agree, it's hard to be comfortable in-game when your not playing consistently. It's damn near impossible.

Quiet market (NOT Toronto), healthy (hopefully), good young team and a leadership role? I'd take my chances on Dave Bolland to if I were Dave Tallon. Viola told the guy he wanted to spend serious coin.

Not to mention if Florida has to dump salary and reboot again in 1-3 years time, Bolland will at least help them reach the cap floor.

I agree his skill-level is underrated, but he's not suddenly going to turn into a 50-60 point player, right? He primarily came up as a scorer, but hasn't been able to score... the part that's overrated are his shutdown ability and intangibles/leadership... I'm not paying a premium for either of those.
- Tomahawk

His point totals may be pretty good on Florida. He'll be getting big minutes and playing on the top PP I bet. It will be similar to Upshall and Versteeg

His point totals may be pretty good on Florida. He'll be getting big minutes and playing on the top PP I bet. It will be similar to Upshall and Versteeg
- PhillySportsGuy

Upshall is so amazing. Seriously hurt this team when he left.

It's a debate of opinions. Only a few people on the board think they can win that type of debate, and I'm not one of them. Providing some video or saying Hartnell had more hits than Raffl - a side track - proves nothing.
- wolfhounds

His avg shot distance has been creeping up over the past few years...

http://www.sportingcharts...L%27&r2type=1&r2strength=

I wouldn't say terrific, or even call him the best defensive center on his team. I think this deal just set him up to become very overrated in short order. I don't see Dubinsky being much different then the player Umberger is or was before his injuries last season.
- Baxter27

I think he's better than Umberger ever was. Which defensive center is better than Dubinsky on the Blue Jackets. The team has really taken a liking to him as well. CBJ could use a strong leader with all of that young talent starting to trickle in.

I don't believe his offense will hold up for some of the deal, but he will still be effective. I see it similar to Dustin Brown, but not as much of a drop offensively.

Oh ok. Well he's still a physical player, maybe not as much in his earlier days, but he's still a physical presence on the ice.
- Streit2ThePoint

That was my opinion as well. But of course, other people's opinions are more 'right' than others.

Upshall is so amazing. Seriously hurt this team when he left.
- jmatchett383

From Kissing Faces to Punching Faces: The Story of Upshall for Dan Carcillo

His avg shot distance has been creeping up over the past few years...

http://www.sportingcharts...L%27&r2type=1&r2strength=
- Tomahawk

Interesting, I heard the opposite.

I heard his creeping has been shooting way up over the past few years

His avg shot distance has been creeping up over the past few years...

http://www.sportingcharts...L%27&r2type=1&r2strength=
- Tomahawk

Wow, who plots all that data? Not a fun job, but interesting. Sniper Power Forward.

His avg shot distance has been creeping up over the past few years...

http://www.sportingcharts...L%27&r2type=1&r2strength=
- Tomahawk

He's definitely been creeping further from the net. I can even see that just watching him.

I remember his play to set up Amac's goal in Game 1. That was a thing of beauty and a picture perfect power forward play though. (I get 2 debate points for alliteration)

Mueller? Come on Hexy
- moylander

Palat-Johnson-Stamkos
Kucherov-Filppula-Callahan
Druin-Killorn-Brown
Morrow-Boyle-Panik
Connolly, Paquette, Namestnikov

Hedman-Carle
Garrison-Stralman
Gudas-Brewer
Barberio-Sustr

Bishop
Nabokov
(Vasilevski, Gudlevskis)



Dude.....(frank) Yzerman

Like Dave Bolland, a very under rated hockey player.
- mochoson

I would not consider Dave Bolland underrated. Like, at all.

His point totals may be pretty good on Florida. He'll be getting big minutes and playing on the top PP I bet. It will be similar to Upshall and Versteeg
- PhillySportsGuy

You don't see him falling into a similar role to the one he had in CHI and TOR?

His best year in CHI he had Ladd and Havlat on his wings... this season... let's just say he likely won't see much of an improvement over Raymond/Clarkson down there.

I heard his creeping has been shooting way up over the past few years
- coffee junkie

Flyers should sign Pat Falloon. Then bring Alexei Yashin in. Get Redden out of retirement and trade for Marleau.

Palat-Johnson-Stamkos
Kucherov-Filppula-Callahan
Druin-Killorn-Brown
Morrow-Boyle-Panik
Connolly, Paquette, Namestnikov

Hedman-Carle
Garrison-Stralman
Gudas-Brewer
Barberio-Sustr

Bishop
Nabokov
(Vasilevski, Gudlevskis)



Dude.....(frank) Yzerman
- mochoson

Ridiculous

New blob by the way

I think he's better than Umberger ever was. Which defensive center is better than Dubinsky on the Blue Jackets. The team has really taken a liking to him as well. CBJ could use a strong leader with all of that young talent starting to trickle in.

I don't believe his offense will hold up for some of the deal, but he will still be effective. I see it similar to Dustin Brown, but not as much of a drop offensively.
- PhillySportsGuy

Ryan Johansen

It's a debate of opinions. Only a few people on the board think they can win that type of debate, and I'm not one of them. Providing some video or saying Hartnell had more hits than Raffl - a side track - proves nothing.
- wolfhounds

It sure is a debate of opinions. But really when one poster actually provides some evidence to support his opinion, such as video and statistical evidence. He's at least making a viable argument. When a disagreeing poster offers no evidence to support an opinion, and only minimizes an argument to one factor and labels it "silly", and uses a really poor analogy. Well then I think it's easy to tell who made the more convincing argument. And the poster who made the more convincing argument, was belittled as though his argument wasn't sound, and was silly, by a poster who offered zero evidence to back up his opinion.