Yikes. Talk about jumping the shark.

I'm sticking with the idea the Flyers wanted to get out from the 2 extra years in Hartnell's contract and calling it a day. It makes the most sense.
- wolfhounds

If they wanted to do a straight salary dump, I feel they could have done better than taking back the same salary, but two years less.

Yikes. Talk about jumping the shark.

I'm sticking with the idea the Flyers wanted to get out from the 2 extra years in Hartnell's contract and calling it a day. It makes the most sense.
- wolfhounds

I think that was the butter. I just get the feeling that Hartnell and Berube did not see eye to eye on the stupid penalties. He mentioned disciplined play enough times in his STH meet and greet thingie.

I dont think Berube wants to be the most penalized team in the league anymore. He wants to spare the team some of those hard minutes. And a domino effect will be to get Couturier out for more positive shifts, since he wont be on the bench after killing one of Hartnells penalties so often.

ott 2 years 2.6 per with the blues
- aightwebang17

If this is just a prediction that is written to look like a fact I'm gonna...

It's true!!!!!

It's also a style preference in both cases.

Desean was definitely a pain in the ass, I'm sure, but Kelly has things he likes to do with the offense that maybe Desean isn't adept at. Kelly also likes taller receivers and I think Danny Briere is taller than Desean Jackson.

Same with Hartnell. Hartnell is a fairly one dimensional player who is also not a great skater, whereas it seems like Hextall favors players who can skate and be versatile.
- johndewar

I agree with this. I just think Hexy likes Umberger as a player and is familiar with him. My concern is that Hexy is remembering him from his Flyers days.

Well scratch that one off. That's ok though.

Still wouldn't mind Galiardi or Winnik. Galiardi is still young
- J35Bacher

I would like the gamble on peter mueller. I think he could slide on either the 1LW or 2LW spots and replace hartsy on the PP. defense is suspect but the guy is fast, good size, and has the moves to help us win a shoot out. injuries are really a thing of the past for him at this point.

There seemed to be a general consensus among their fans. That's what scares me. If we got rid of Coburn, some people would be happy, but most of us would be upset if the return wasn't very good.

Normally, the initial feeling after a trade is accurate. At least for me it is.
- PhillySportsGuy

I think what the general consensus of the fans is, is really irrelevant. Not a good barometer to follow.

Why not Simmer on L1? He's got chemistry w/ G and Jake from the PP.
- Tomahawk

I guess it depends who they can put on the 2nd line to replace Simmonds.

RJ VL BSchenn as the 2nd line?

I would like to see Hextall look into Setaguchi. If there are no trades to be made.
He could be had for a bargain. Maybe he could put up Mason Raymond numbers from last year.

I would like the gamble on peter mueller. I think he could slide on either the 1LW or 2LW spots and replace hartsy on the PP. defense is suspect but the guy is fast, good size, and has the moves to help us win a shoot out. injuries are really a thing of the past for him at this point.
- moylander

I would like him too. I still think they need to clear some money before they would sign him.

This was my first thought when I saw some adv. stats tweeters squawking about the rolling 15 game corsi whatever difference ("you could land a 747 between these two lines"). I was told it was "reaching".
- BulliesPhan87

Were G and Jake better off w/ Hartsy as a linemate than anybody else they tried? Definitely, but then again I think that speaks volumes about the LW depth more than anything.

Did Hartsy make other lines "better"? You'd have to consider how many games he actually spent on other lines and the kind of guys he was replacing (hint: Vinny).

The numbers favor him, but jumping to the conclusion that he's a possession-critical player is a bit of a hasty thing.

I think what the general consensus of the fans is, is really irrelevant. Not a good barometer to follow.
- MJL

They watch these guys every game. Think how much our opinions vary in this thread. If we came to a general consensus, wouldn't you feel confident in what we're saying being true?

I would like him too. I still think they need to clear some money before they would sign him.
- PhillySportsGuy

They don't need to clear money, it's not an issue.

They need to trade a bunch of known assets for unproven players that may or may not ever be good.

What else am I forgetting? I know there's more.

They don't need to clear money, it's not an issue.

They need to trade a bunch of known assets for unproven players that may or may not ever be good.

What else am I forgetting? I know there's more.
- jmatchett383

You haven't mentioned advanced stats yet

I would like him too. I still think they need to clear some money before they would sign him.
- PhillySportsGuy

I forgot about him. yeah he would be nice. And I don't think he needs a giant deal. Maybe 1 year at 1.5 - 2 million? a prove it deal as he is young enough to cash in on it next season if puts up good numbers.

They watch these guys every game. Think how much our opinions vary in this thread. If we came to a general consensus, wouldn't you feel confident in what we're saying being true?
- PhillySportsGuy

In his defense, most self-proclaimed "Flyers fans" are complete idiots.

Were G and Jake better off w/ Hartsy as a linemate than anybody else they tried? Definitely, but then again I think that speaks volumes about the LW depth more than anything.

Did Hartsy make other lines "better"? You'd have to consider how many games he actually spent on other lines and the kind of guys he was replacing (hint: Vinny).

The numbers favor him, but jumping to the conclusion that he's a possession-critical player is a bit of a hasty thing.
- Tomahawk

Hartnell has been a member of a number of lines that played well and gelled in his time as a Flyer. I think that says a lot about his tenure as a Flyer. He's been an effective power forward for the team.

You haven't mentioned advanced stats yet
- PhillySportsGuy

Grossmann's CORSI is the worst CORSI in the history of CORSI

Hartnell is the worst player in the NHL, ever.

Advanced stats aren't true. Remedial stats are true, and once you think about it in context, you'll see that you're wrong. It's all heresay.

If they wanted to do a straight salary dump, I feel they could have done better than taking back the same salary, but two years less.
- PhillySportsGuy

Maybe. I have no idea. But I just never got the feeling that Hartnell was an off-ice liability, or came to camp grossly out of shape. If we're going to talk fitting into and adhering to a system (or not), as Bill implied, that I can see as a reason for his trade.

And as far as Umberger and the Columbus fans go, I'm going to guess once Umby made it clear he wanted out of town, some goodwill was lost.

I'm hoping the back isn't much of an issue for him, or VL, this coming season. But no doubt, we have chemistry and performance question marks.

- Tomahawk

Hartnell has been a member of a number of lines that played well and gelled in his time as a Flyer. I think that says a lot about his tenure as a Flyer. He's been an effective power forward for the team.
- MJL

"But his age...."

They watch these guys every game. Think how much our opinions vary in this thread. If we came to a general consensus, wouldn't you feel confident in what we're saying being true?
- PhillySportsGuy

Not at all. I far more trust the general consensus that the Flyers professional scouts and talent evaluators.

Sobotka leaving for KHL. That explains the Ott signing.

- jak521

Man, Hugh Hefner just doesn't throw parties like he used to.

Hartnell has been a member of a number of lines that played well and gelled in his time as a Flyer. I think that says a lot about his tenure as a Flyer. He's been an effective power forward for the team.
- MJL

He's definitely a reliable producer, but he's not the type of guy who can just join any line and improve their shot differential the way a player like Voracek could with his speed and ability to hang on to the puck for long periods.

Giroux had basically the same CF% playing with Raffl as he did with Hartnell.

I forgot about him. yeah he would be nice. And I don't think he needs a giant deal. Maybe 1 year at 1.5 - 2 million? a prove it deal as he is young enough to cash in on it next season if puts up good numbers.
- J35Bacher

The potential opportunity to play with Giroux should really be appealing to someone on a 1 year deal.

Sobotka leaving for KHL. That explains the Ott signing.
- PhillySportsGuy

Wow, terrible tradeoff for them... Vlady could do it all.