It was a completely lateral move. I dont by into the fact that he is so versatile that it makes him that valuable. He was a buy out candidate.
- jak521

That's because he doesn't fit into Columbus' system, which is a bunch of knuckle-dragging meatheads with no speed who simply try to hit and punch their way to victory.

The Flyers, on the other hand, have a long history of being a finesse and skating team, so Umberger's lightning speed and offensive maic fits that bill entirely.

Trading him away was probably one of Chiarelli's few f-ups.
- Tomahawk

Impossible. He never makes mistakes

Honestly... the only real value I see in the trade is that 2 years have been shaved off, and there are gonna be some players needing to be re-signed during those years.

It was a completely lateral move. I dont by into the fact that he is so versatile that it makes him that valuable. He was a buy out candidate.
- jak521

If the flyers had a buyout and vinny didn't exist hartnell would have been bought out this summer

I think they felt Hartnell wasn't going to buy in to Berube's system/way he wanted to run the team. For a guy who has played and lived in Philly area for a while, he seemed all to happy to waive his NTC pretty quickly. I imagine Hexy didn't have the most flattering things to say when they spoke on the phone about waiving his NTC.
- PhillySportsGuy

I seriously doubt that Hextall called on the phone to criticize and disparage the player, and then said by the way, can you waive your NTC for us, so we can trade your sorrry ass.

That's because he doesn't fit into Columbus' system, which is a bunch of knuckle-dragging meatheads with no speed who simply try to hit and punch their way to victory.

The Flyers, on the other hand, have a long history of being a finesse and skating team, so Umberger's lightning speed and offensive maic fits that bill entirely.
- jmatchett383

You're on your game today

If the flyers had a buyout and vinny didn't exist hartnell would have been bought out this summer
- Just5

wait... did you just seriously say, IF the Flyers had a buy out, and IF Vinny wasnt around.. the Flyers would have bought out Hartnell?

I know Kevin Bacon.

I think they felt Hartnell wasn't going to buy in to Berube's system/way he wanted to run the team. For a guy who has played and lived in Philly area for a while, he seemed all to happy to waive his NTC pretty quickly. I imagine Hexy didn't have the most flattering things to say when they spoke on the phone about waiving his NTC.
- PhillySportsGuy

Hartsy had fitness, maturity and discipline issues spanning three coaches here... I remember a BTS vid w/ Lupul and Hartsy where they joked about being chided for having the two worst body fat % on the team... think he was just entirely too casual on and off the ice, and probably not the best influence on his younger teammates.

Giroux had basically the same CF% playing with Raffl as he did with Hartnell.
- Feanor

That probably has more to do with Giroux being the most naturally-gifted player the organization has ever had as opposed to how well Hartnell and Raffl played.

But yes, Raffl and Hartnell and basically interchangeable players, no difference really.

I seriously doubt that Hextall called on the phone to criticize and disparage the player, and then said by the way, can you waive your NTC for us, so we can trade your sorrry ass.
- MJL

He didn't disparage him. He probably told him they were looking to move the team in a different direction and they didn't think he fit what they're trying to do.

It still hurts to hear something like that.

I seriously doubt that Hextall called on the phone to criticize and disparage the player, and then said by the way, can you waive your NTC for us, so we can trade your sorrry ass.
- MJL

Honestly, he probably told him that the team is going in a direction that they dont think will fit his style. If he wants to play top minutes he is going to need to give them a few teams...

Hartsy had fitness, maturity and discipline issues spanning three coaches here... I remember a BTS vid w/ Lupul and Hartsy where they joked about being chided for having the two worst body fat % on the team... think he was just entirely too casual on and off the ice, and probably not the best influence on his younger teammates.
- Tomahawk

Agreed, locker room cancer.

He didn't disparage him. He probably told him they were looking to move the team in a different direction and they didn't think he fit what they're trying to do.

It still hurts to hear something like that.
- PhillySportsGuy

ew

Hartsy had fitness, maturity and discipline issues spanning three coaches here... I remember a BTS vid w/ Lupul and Hartsy where they joked about being chided for having the two worst body fat % on the team... think he was just entirely too casual on and off the ice, and probably not the best influence on his younger teammates.
- Tomahawk

I also remember a much more mature Hartsy talking about the impact Jagr had on everyone when it came to fitness.. and him completely following suit.

Honestly... the only real value I see in the trade is that 2 years have been shaved off, and there are gonna be some players needing to be re-signed during those years.

It was a completely lateral move. I dont by into the fact that he is so versatile that it makes him that valuable. He was a buy out candidate.
- jak521

I think for sure that the 2 years was a big factor. I don't think the versatility was the biggest reason for the trade, but just a byproduct of it, that will be a nice trait to have in a player. I think when looking at it, that they are better in some areas, and worse in others with the deal. How it turns out is really going to be about how it changes the team, if at all. And if other players can take a bigger chunk of offensive responsibility.

Agreed, locker room cancer.
- jmatchett383

Maybe more locker room syphilis.

I seriously doubt that Hextall called on the phone to criticize and disparage the player, and then said by the way, can you waive your NTC for us, so we can trade your sorrry ass.
- MJL

There's a nice way to tell someone bad news, and there's a way where you just come off as a jerk. It's apparently happened on this site where one person does not exactly phrase things in a socially acceptable manner.

I doubt he called him up and started screaming at him. He probably explained that, as much as he was a well-liked player, than the organization wanted to go a different direction and that it may be in his best interests to go play with a different organization.

I don't think Raffl is a long term solution at 1LW or can do everything Hartnell did. I just don't think Columbus fans should expect Hartnell to put up Corsi numbers in the mid 50s without players like Giroux and Voracek beside him.

He didn't disparage him. He probably told him they were looking to move the team in a different direction and they didn't think he fit what they're trying to do.

It still hurts to hear something like that.
- PhillySportsGuy

I think that's a more apt description of what probably happened.

I also remember a much more mature Hartsy talking about the impact Jagr had on everyone when it came to fitness.. and him completely following suit.
- jak521

And it seeming like he completely fell back in to his old ways once Jagr was gone.

That probably has more to do with Giroux being the most naturally-gifted player the organization has ever had as opposed to how well Hartnell and Raffl played.

But yes, Raffl and Hartnell and basically interchangeable players, no difference really.
- jmatchett383

Corsi numbers for Schenn and Simmonds were very strong with both Raffl and Hartnell. I just think they're both good players. Raffl's problem is his shooting. He creates chances and does everything else well, but he didn't bury his chances.

I don't think Raffl is a long term solution at 1LW or can do everything Hartnell did. I just don't think Columbus fans should expect Hartnell to put up Corsi numbers in the mid 50s without players like Giroux and Voracek beside him.
- Feanor

Can they expect him to put up goals (PP more than 5v5), skate his best (what ever that is), give 110% every night, be a physical player who forechecks hard, and can help keep the locker room light when the team's down?

There's a nice way to tell someone bad news, and there's a way where you just come off as a jerk. It's apparently happened on this site where one person does not exactly phrase things in a socially acceptable manner.

I doubt he called him up and started screaming at him. He probably explained that, as much as he was a well-liked player, than the organization wanted to go a different direction and that it may be in his best interests to go play with a different organization.
- jmatchett383

On this site? Nah, that never happens.

I don't think Raffl is a long term solution at 1LW or can do everything Hartnell did. I just don't think Columbus fans should expect Hartnell to put up Corsi numbers in the mid 50s without players like Giroux and Voracek beside him.
- Feanor

I'm curious to see how Raffl performs in his 2nd year in the NHL. And Bellemare, at 29, in his first. Real curious.

Hartnell is definitely going to struggle for at least a little while without G.

Today's a dark day

And it seeming like he completely fell back in to his old ways once Jagr was gone.
- MBFlyerfan

With fitness and maturity or with taking bad penalties?