Don't know where your getting that from, or where that was said.
- MJL

What do you view Amac as? 2/3? 3? 3/4? 4? 4/5?

One of the truths about Corsi is that sometimes good players on bad teams have bad numbers.
- MJL

You act as if we don't take everything into account and just blindly look at Corsi.

For better or worse, this Evander Kane thing will become a distraction. I'd look to trade him at some time in the next year.

Tell him the harder he plays, better chance he has at moving out sooner. (better deals)

I just hope Flyers stay away myself.

What do you view Amac as? 2/3? 3? 3/4? 4? 4/5?
- PhillySportsGuy

I view him as what he is. Which is a solid 2nd pair all around puck moving defenseman, that makes the Flyers a better team.

You act as if we don't take everything into account and just blindly look at Corsi.
- PhillySportsGuy

I think that's your hang up, not mine. Not sure what's bringing this on, but if you want to have a discussion on Corsi, or Andrew MacDonald, that's fine.

I view him as what he is. Which is a solid 2nd pair all around puck moving defenseman, that makes the Flyers a better team.
- MJL

Ok. So you view him as a 3/4 and I view him as a 4/5. OMG! We're so far apart! I'm so anti-Amac!

For better or worse, this Evander Kane thing will become a distraction. I'd look to trade him at some time in the next year.

Tell him the harder he plays, better chance he has at moving out sooner. (better deals)

I just hope Flyers stay away myself.
- flyer_nutter

Tough situation. Obviously a very talented player. If you can live through and get past the growing pains and maturity issues, could have a really good player on your hands.

Ok. So you view him as a 3/4 and I view him as a 4/5. OMG! We're so far apart! I'm so anti-Amac!
- PhillySportsGuy

The first thing that needs to be cleared up is when did I say that your "so anti-Amac"? Please show me where I did, and then maybe we can dispense with that and have a conversation.

One of the truths about Corsi is that sometimes good players on bad teams have bad numbers.
- MJL

If you took the number out of context, yes. There are ways to contextualize the Corsi numbers by:

1. Checking the relative Corsi numbers (comparing him to his teammates)
2. Checking the Corsi numbers of defense partners who play with him versus their numbers when paired with other players

Ok. So you view him as a 3/4 and I view him as a 4/5. OMG! We're so far apart! I'm so anti-Amac!
- PhillySportsGuy

Settle on 4 you Nancys and be done with it

The first thing that needs to be cleared up is when did I say that your "so anti-Amac"? Please show me where I did, and then maybe we can dispense with that and have a conversation.
- MJL

I just don't understand this huge Amac debate. You'd think people were so far apart on him when they're not. People ether view him as a 3/4 or 4/5. I just don't understand why something like this is worth the debate.

You make comments like this

The sad part is that someone with that level of incompetence can actually write a blog that will be actually read.

You discount advanced stats then insult people who, YOU BELIVE, rely entirely on advanced stats.

Settle on 4 you Nancys and be done with it
- PhillaBully

Go with 3.75 since nobody is sure

Tough situation. Obviously a very talented player. If you can live through and get past the growing pains and maturity issues, could have a really good player on your hands.
- MJL

I just think the price will be way too high.

I'd take a gamble and hope he evolves like Carter has in LA for example. The Jets essentially have him as their arguably best offensive talent. He wont be cheap.

Defensive game questions, and it would be cool to have players come in who have that element to their game already, not those you have to teach it to.

Go with 3.75 since nobody is sure
- ob18

I'm not debating what Amac is. We each have our opinion. It just bothers me that he makes condescending comments as if anyone who looks at advanced stats is "incompetent" and that we rely entirely on Corsi in and of itself. He acts like I haven't watched a game and just look at spreadsheets.

If you took the number out of context, yes. There are ways to contextualize the Corsi numbers by:

1. Checking the relative Corsi numbers (comparing him to his teammates)
2. Checking the Corsi numbers of defense partners who play with him versus their numbers when paired with other players
- aflyerpower8

The same problems occur in using relative corsi. And there are problems when using WOWY with Corsi also.

No matter what, you cannot get away from the false data with corsi. Regardless of who is playing with who, there is going to be a large percentage of false dats. It's why Coris is not a reliable measure of a player.

In terms of looking at wowy's in conjunction with corsi, there are two issues. One when looking at a defenseman playing with another defenseman, other then his usual defense partner, the sample size is a lot smaller. The other issue is that inevitably when a regular defense tandem is split up, one player is put into a different role and situation, and with different players. Completely spoiling the data.
As an example, let's say Mark Striet's Corsi numbers are better when not playing with Nik Grossmann, then when he is playing with Grossmann. Does that mean that Grossmann is bringing Streit's Corsi numbers down? Or is it because when he's moved away from Grossmann, he's now playing with Giroux and Voracek, in offensive situations, which elevates his Corsi numbers due to playing with better players, and in better situations? You use Corsi close to eliminate score effects, but the same issues are still there. It just isn't a reliable stat for measuring individual players.

I still imagine MacD got a little bit more money in exchange for no NMC involvement in the contract. It's a tad tricky to compare contracts to guys who got those clauses and compare the money directly

I'm not debating what Amac is. We each have our opinion. It just bothers me that he makes condescending comments as if anyone who looks at advanced stats is "incompetent" and that we rely entirely on Corsi in and of itself. He acts like I haven't watched a game and just look at spreadsheets.
- PhillySportsGuy

Let it go.

Its one dude on a message board. Laugh, throw back a BS comment of your own and talk about what you want with others.

For better or worse, this Evander Kane thing will become a distraction. I'd look to trade him at some time in the next year.

Tell him the harder he plays, better chance he has at moving out sooner. (better deals)

I just hope Flyers stay away myself.
- flyer_nutter

Yes

I'm not debating what Amac is. We each have our opinion. It just bothers me that he makes condescending comments as if anyone who looks at advanced stats is "incompetent" and that we rely entirely on Corsi in and of itself. He acts like I haven't watched a game and just look at spreadsheets.
- PhillySportsGuy

Well aren't we all GM's who know everything about players & how to build a championship caliber team?

I just think the price will be way too high.

I'd take a gamble and hope he evolves like Carter has in LA for example. The Jets essentially have him as their arguably best offensive talent. He wont be cheap.

Defensive game questions, and it would be cool to have players come in who have that element to their game already, not those you have to teach it to.
- flyer_nutter

Yes

Go with 3.75 since nobody is sure
- ob18

Not to worry, Hagg will be promoted to the NHL around Christmas sparking endless debate how the organization is rushing another prospect, good times ahead.

Not to worry, Hagg will be promoted to the NHL around Christmas sparking endless debate how the organization is rushing another prospect, good times ahead.


- ravishingone

Don't see that on happening.

I just think the price will be way too high.

I'd take a gamble and hope he evolves like Carter has in LA for example. The Jets essentially have him as their arguably best offensive talent. He wont be cheap.

Defensive game questions, and it would be cool to have players come in who have that element to their game already, not those you have to teach it to.
- flyer_nutter

The Jets seem to warn "Fair Value" for Kane. What's fair value exactly? At 22 years of age, anyone who trades for him is only trading for potential. He very much looks like he could be a future star in this league and he has had flashes of greatness but the attitude really stinks and players like him sometimes get their way and fall apart. It seems like the most focused bunch goes on to simply play hockey and become stars. I'd be willing to take Kane, especially right now but make no mistake, the Flyers would have traded him yesterday if they were having the sae problems with one of our own.

The same problems occur in using relative corsi. And there are problems when using WOWY with Corsi also.

No matter what, you cannot get away from the false data with corsi. Regardless of who is playing with who, there is going to be a large percentage of false dats. It's why Coris is not a reliable measure of a player.

In terms of looking at wowy's in conjunction with corsi, there are two issues. One when looking at a defenseman playing with another defenseman, other then his usual defense partner, the sample size is a lot smaller. The other issue is that inevitably when a regular defense tandem is split up, one player is put into a different role and situation, and with different players. Completely spoiling the data.
As an example, let's say Mark Striet's Corsi numbers are better when not playing with Nik Grossmann, then when he is playing with Grossmann. Does that mean that Grossmann is bringing Streit's Corsi numbers down? Or is it because when he's moved away from Grossmann, he's now playing with Giroux and Voracek, in offensive situations, which elevates his Corsi numbers due to playing with better players, and in better situations? You use Corsi close to eliminate score effects, but the same issues are still there. It just isn't a reliable stat for measuring individual players.
- MJL

What if EVERY Islander defenseman had worse corsi numbers when paired with Amac?

Well aren't we all GM's who know everything about players & how to build a championship caliber team?
- ob18

No