I still imagine MacD got a little bit more money in exchange for no NMC involvement in the contract. It's a tad tricky to compare contracts to guys who got those clauses and compare the money directly
- eayost

And by doing so basically got himself a NTC.

Well aren't we all GM's who know everything about players & how to build a championship caliber team?
- ob18

The same problems occur in using relative corsi. And there are problems when using WOWY with Corsi also.

No matter what, you cannot get away from the false data with corsi. Regardless of who is playing with who, there is going to be a large percentage of false dats. It's why Coris is not a reliable measure of a player.

In terms of looking at wowy's in conjunction with corsi, there are two issues. One when looking at a defenseman playing with another defenseman, other then his usual defense partner, the sample size is a lot smaller. The other issue is that inevitably when a regular defense tandem is split up, one player is put into a different role and situation, and with different players. Completely spoiling the data.
As an example, let's say Mark Striet's Corsi numbers are better when not playing with Nik Grossmann, then when he is playing with Grossmann. Does that mean that Grossmann is bringing Streit's Corsi numbers down? Or is it because when he's moved away from Grossmann, he's now playing with Giroux and Voracek, in offensive situations, which elevates his Corsi numbers due to playing with better players, and in better situations? You use Corsi close to eliminate score effects, but the same issues are still there. It just isn't a reliable stat for measuring individual players.
- MJL

I chuckle like a little child when I see the acronym "wowy"

I still imagine MacD got a little bit more money in exchange for no NMC involvement in the contract. It's a tad tricky to compare contracts to guys who got those clauses and compare the money directly
- eayost

5mil for 6 years for an average at best defensmen is in itself a nmc in the eyes of a smart team.

What if EVERY Islander defenseman had worse corsi numbers when paired with Amac?
- PhillySportsGuy

Don't give a poop what he did on the islanders, when he came to the flyers the defense core played much better.

No
- Giroux_Is_God

- PhillySportsGuy

Don't see that on happening.
- ob18

I expect one of the three youngsters getting some time with the big club, not sure how much. Kimmo is older, Grossmann injury prone, I expect more man games lost on the blueline then last year. Schultz will get the call on a short-term basis, but if someone is gone for a while I can see the call made, IMO.

The same problems occur in using relative corsi. And there are problems when using WOWY with Corsi also.

No matter what, you cannot get away from the false data with corsi. Regardless of who is playing with who, there is going to be a large percentage of false dats. It's why Coris is not a reliable measure of a player.

In terms of looking at wowy's in conjunction with corsi, there are two issues. One when looking at a defenseman playing with another defenseman, other then his usual defense partner, the sample size is a lot smaller. The other issue is that inevitably when a regular defense tandem is split up, one player is put into a different role and situation, and with different players. Completely spoiling the data.
As an example, let's say Mark Striet's Corsi numbers are better when not playing with Nik Grossmann, then when he is playing with Grossmann. Does that mean that Grossmann is bringing Streit's Corsi numbers down? Or is it because when he's moved away from Grossmann, he's now playing with Giroux and Voracek, in offensive situations, which elevates his Corsi numbers due to playing with better players, and in better situations? You use Corsi close to eliminate score effects, but the same issues are still there. It just isn't a reliable stat for measuring individual players.
- MJL

And there are other stats like QoC and zone starts to further contextualize the data, but to discount it entirely is a mistake just as bad as relying solely on data.

5mil for 6 years for an average at best defensmen is in itself a nmc in the eyes of a smart team.
- Litepow

5 is not much for a second pairing d. In two years that will be below market value

- ob18

Nice

And there are other stats like QoC and zone starts to further contextualize the data, but to discount it entirely is a mistake just as bad as relying solely on data.
- aflyerpower8

Yes

5 is not much for a second pairing d.
- PhillaBully

It is for a 4/5 defenseman.

The Jets seem to warn "Fair Value" for Kane. What's fair value exactly? At 22 years of age, anyone who trades for him is only trading for potential. He very much looks like he could be a future star in this league and he has had flashes of greatness but the attitude really stinks and players like him sometimes get their way and fall apart. It seems like the most focused bunch goes on to simply play hockey and become stars. I'd be willing to take Kane, especially right now but make no mistake, the Flyers would have traded him yesterday if they were having the sae problems with one of our own.
- SuperSchennBros

Not really potential at this point. At a young age he has proven he can play. Its whether he can play at that higher tier consistently that is the question. As is his defensive game.

The off ice stuff is another issue. Been enough of a laughing stock recently. Berube and Hex seem like they preach professional attitude. Bring in more of that. Not dumbass Evander. Cocky kid deserved to get beat up in the bar here. There I said it.

I just don't understand this huge Amac debate. You'd think people were so far apart on him when they're not. People ether view him as a 3/4 or 4/5. I just don't understand why something like this is worth the debate.

You make comments like this

The sad part is that someone with that level of incompetence can actually write a blog that will be actually read.

You discount advanced stats then insult people who, YOU BELIVE, rely entirely on advanced stats.
- PhillySportsGuy

This is pretty funny, as you think that my comment was about advanced stats. It wasn't. Not at all. Although the author mentions advanced stats in his blog, and clearly doesn't have the first clue on how to use them.
But here are some highlights from the blog, and some of the authors comments on MacDonald, since you want to discuss him.

"The Flyers trade a 2015 2nd round pick and 2014 3rd round pick to the Islanders for Andrew MacDonald, who was terrible at hockey for the Islanders and continued to be terrible at hockey for the Flyers after the trade."

"Andrew MacDonald is (frank)ing awful at hockey, and the Flyers gave up two legitimate assets to acquire him. This was an extremely poor idea by Paul Holmgren."

That's just a couple of comments that the author makes that points to incompetence, and really zero knowledge of the game of Hockey.

And lastly, I haven't insulted anyone nor have I discounted advanced stats. That is false. What I have done is offered an educated opinion on them, how they're misused, and what I think the flaws are. And finally, I have yet to read anyone on this board, effectively refute what I have offered is the fatal flaw of Corsi when looking at players individually.

And by doing so basically got himself a NTC.
- flyer_nutter

Unless, as Bill has said, he's actually viewed favorably in some circuits of the league.

It is for a 4/5 defenseman.
- aflyerpower8

Well our opinions differ

Unless, as Bill has said, he's actually viewed favorably in some circuits of the league.
- eayost

I'd hope.

But if push came to shove, I really wonder what they would be getting back. Or if we would be looking at another Hartnelll/Umberger.

I expect one of the three youngsters getting some time with the big club, not sure how much. Kimmo is older, Grossmann injury prone, I expect more man games lost on the blueline then last year. Schultz will get the call on a short-term basis, but if someone is gone for a while I can see the call made, IMO.
- ravishingone

If I'd say who would be one I think Alt would be first up, even though he also needs more seasoning and development.

5mil for 6 years for an average at best defensmen is in itself a nmc in the eyes of a smart team.
- Litepow

Is it in 3 years for a team like Florida who wants to reach cap floors? We just saw a bunch of cap floor teams hand out dumb contracts to players worse than AMac

That's assuming AMac doesn't earn his keep here, which I think he can. But the lack of NMC provides some flexibility not usually associated with UFA signings (which AMac in some ways is)

This is pretty funny, as you think that my comment was about advanced stats. It wasn't. Not at all. Although the author mentions advanced stats in his blog, and clearly doesn't have the first clue on how to use them.
But here are some highlights from the blog, and some of the authors comments on MacDonald, since you want to discuss him.

"The Flyers trade a 2015 2nd round pick and 2014 3rd round pick to the Islanders for Andrew MacDonald, who was terrible at hockey for the Islanders and continued to be terrible at hockey for the Flyers after the trade."

"Andrew MacDonald is (frank)ing awful at hockey, and the Flyers gave up two legitimate assets to acquire him. This was an extremely poor idea by Paul Holmgren."

That's just a couple of comments that the author makes that points to incompetence, and really zero knowledge of the game of Hockey.

And lastly, I haven't insulted anyone nor have I discounted advanced stats. That is false. What I have done is offered an educated opinion on them, how they're misused, and what I think the flaws are. And finally, I have yet to read anyone on this board, effectively refute what I have offered is the fatal flaw of Corsi when looking at players individually.
- MJL

Didn't realize you were talking about that article.

I'm done debating topics with you for a while. Not sure why I even got engaged. I must need to eat something.

Is it in 3 years for a team like Florida who wants to reach cap floors? We just saw a bunch of cap floor teams hand out dumb contracts to players worse than AMac

That's assuming AMac doesn't earn his keep here, which I think he can. But the lack of NMC provides some flexibility not usually associated with UFA signings (which AMac in some ways is)
- eayost

I don't like that they gave up the picks to get him, when they had to overpay to keep him anyway. The value of picks should have been placed higher by the former GM who in my eyes is a moron but that's nothing new.

They have him now, and I think he can be a solid contributor to a cup winner. On a 2nd pairing where he isn't asked to carry it.

Not really potential at this point. At a young age he has proven he can play. Its whether he can play at that higher tier consistently that is the question. As is his defensive game.

The off ice stuff is another issue. Been enough of a laughing stock recently. Berube and Hex seem like they preach professional attitude. Bring in more of that. Not dumbass Evander. Cocky kid deserved to get beat up in the bar here. There I said it.
- flyer_nutter

Giroux has been the epitome of professional attitude this offseason lol

Giroux has been the epitome of professional attitude this offseason lol
- eayost

Would we really be all that surprised to see him traded in the next few years?

*mind blown*

If I'd say who would be one I think Alt would be first up, even though he also needs more seasoning and development.
- ob18

Alt would make the most sense considering he has the most pro experience in North American rinks. However, I don't think Hagg is that far behind him with his experience in the Swedish elite league. Granted, I have no idea how long it will take him to adjust to the North American game. Each prospect develops at his own rate. I wouldn't be shocked to see Hagg move past Alt in the organizational depth chart by the end of the year.