And there are other stats like QoC and zone starts to further contextualize the data, but to discount it entirely is a mistake just as bad as relying solely on data.
- aflyerpower8

And neither does anything to counter the fatal flaw of Corsi. Zone starts are a pretty good stat in my view. It gives pretty good insight into how a player is used. QoC is a mediocre stat in my view. Some player ice time is elevated because the team has a weakness in an area. A perfect example is MacDonald with the Isles. He was playing 25 minutes a night. He really shouldn't be playing that much. But the Isles didn't have a choice.

Well our opinions differ
- PhillaBully

Mine was a joke.

Alt would make the most sense considering he has the most pro experience in North American rinks. However, I don't think Hagg is that far behind him with his experience in the Swedish elite league. Granted, I have no idea how long it will take him to adjust to the North American game. Each prospect develops at his own rate. I wouldn't be shocked to see Hagg move past Alt in the organizational depth chart by the end of the year.
- ravishingone

Well when Hagg came over him & Alt were paired together so if that continues it would be interesting

I don't like that they gave up the picks to get him, when they had to overpay to keep him anyway. The value of picks should have been placed higher by the former GM who in my eyes is a moron but that's nothing new.

They have him now, and I think he can be a solid contributor to a cup winner. On a 2nd pairing where he isn't asked to carry it.
- flyer_nutter

The picks were used to ensure they ended up with the player they actually wanted, and not have to settle on someone else or be left out all together. And while this is laid out on Holmgren, I can't imagine Hextall wasn't kind of ok with how this has unfolded. The succession business was so obvious as soon as he was brought aboard

Well when Hagg came over him & Alt were paired together so if that continues it would be interesting
- ob18

Curious, who is behind the bench with Murray this season in Allentown?

What if EVERY Islander defenseman had worse corsi numbers when paired with Amac?
- PhillySportsGuy

If they're playing with MacDonald and against top lines, versus not playing against top lines when not paired with MacDonald. And again here is the fatal flaw of Corsi. The two defenseman are not the only players on the ice for the team. There are 3 other skaters and a Goalie. Not sure why that factor is so hard to grasp.

I can't wait for the twin towers, Embiid, and Noel to get their hands on the Cavs.

Cleveland is the armpit of the United States when it comes to the sports world, and just about everything else!
- PLindbergh31

they do have the rock and roll hall of fame, Philly gets screwed out of everything

Curious, who is behind the bench with Murray this season in Allentown?
- ravishingone

Not sure, to be honest I haven't heard or even looked into it.

And by doing so basically got himself a NTC.
- flyer_nutter

Not at all. In a Season or two, 5M is going to be cheap for a quality defenseman.

Didn't realize you were talking about that article.

I'm done debating topics with you for a while. Not sure why I even got engaged. I must need to eat something.
- PhillySportsGuy

Pretty obvious you didn't. But not sure how it could be missed. You even retyped what I posted which was:

"The sad part is that someone with that level of incompetence can actually write a blog that will be actually read."

Not really potential at this point. At a young age he has proven he can play. Its whether he can play at that higher tier consistently that is the question. As is his defensive game.

The off ice stuff is another issue. Been enough of a laughing stock recently. Berube and Hex seem like they preach professional attitude. Bring in more of that. Not dumbass Evander. Cocky kid deserved to get beat up in the bar here. There I said it.
- flyer_nutter

Sure he can play. A lot of young players could play at some point but either your selfish and immature for you focused and dedicated. The selfish often fall off.

Sure he can play. A lot of young players could play at some point either your selfish and immature for you focused and dedicated. The selfish often fall off.
- SuperSchennBros

I wonder if half of this stuff is just his sense of humor. What if he just thinks its funny to troll the media with something as silly as a favorited tweet or vague answer?

Not sure, to be honest I haven't heard or even looked into it.
- ob18

Did a little research and couldn't find anything. It just seems odd how the talent pool from both a player and coaching perspective took a pretty good nose dive after the team left Philly. There was a decent pipeline of coaches from Hershey and Philly who at least made a contribution in the NHL. Once the Phantoms left the Spectrum, not so much.

It sure looks like the Hexy vision is for the bolstering of the AHL roster, which I would hope includes bringing in solid assistants who can help Murray and eventually take over and keep the club playing well when Terry is ready to retire (he is 63).

I wonder if half of this stuff is just his sense of humor. What if he just thinks its funny to troll the media with something as silly as a favorited tweet or vague answer?
- aflyerpower8

Who knows but one can only wonder what he'll be like by age 29.

Who knows but one can only wonder what he'll be like by age 29.
- SuperSchennBros

He'll be in a Flyers uniform, of course!

He'll be in a Flyer's uniform, of course!
- Litepow

I don't like Evander Kane's personality anymore then Patrick Kane's personality but both are in two completely different situations. I think Patrick Kane is watered down because he's in a favourable situation. He's on arguably the best team in the league, he can win championships and playing with other super stars who carry themselves well. Evander Kane doesn't have any of this and he wants out. I could see a Evander Kane becoming more watered down here with the perper influences and winning ways.

Let it be known that I'm not indicating that Evander Kane and Patrick Kane are related in any way. I just hate both personalities.

I don't like Evander Kane's personality anymore then Patrick Kane's personality but both are in two completely different situations. I think Patrick Kane is watered down because he's in a favourable situation. He's on arguably the best team in the league, he can win championships and playing with other super stars who carry themselves well. Evander Kane doesn't have any of this and he wants out. I could see a Evander Kane becoming more water down here with the perper influences and winning ways.

Let it be known that I'm not indicating that Evander Kane and Patrick Kane are related in any way. I just hate both personalities.
- SuperSchennBros

Pat Kane comes off as a tool, and the cab driver incident doesn't really help him much. The 07 draft and the SCF goal firmly twist the knife as to why I (frank)ing hate him with a bloody fury.

Not at all. In a Season or two, 5M is going to be cheap for a quality defenseman.
- MJL

Honestly I don't know how much I see it going up. The cap that is. Smaller market teams already have a harder time competing with the bigger markets. I do think having a big pocket book still holds true in the new NHL. To a point anyway. I cant see the cap sky rocketing again and again. Its not as if the US, or NA for that matter is booming. Unless hockey become more of an elitist sport than it is.

Ill end this here though, Im not a cap guy by any means, doesn't tickle my fancy too much.

...when looking at a defenseman playing with another defenseman, other then his usual defense partner, the sample size is a lot smaller. The other issue is that inevitably when a regular defense tandem is split up, one player is put into a different role and situation, and with different players. Completely spoiling the data....
- MJL

This is actually true, and surprisingly cogent considering it came from you. I'm not a huge believer in the value of WOWY at the moment.

This personal crusade you have against stats... this thing is marching ahead with or without you. The numbers aren't perfect (yet), but there are very smart people working to refine/expand our rational understanding of the sport... and I think that makes it a VERY exciting and interesting time to be a hockey fan.

I don't like Evander Kane's personality anymore then Patrick Kane's personality but both are in two completely different situations. I think Patrick Kane is watered down because he's in a favourable situation. He's on arguably the best team in the league, he can win championships and playing with other super stars who carry themselves well. Evander Kane doesn't have any of this and he wants out. I could see a Evander Kane becoming more water down here with the perper influences and winning ways.

Let it be known that I'm not indicating that Evander Kane and Patrick Kane are related in any way. I just hate both personalities.
- SuperSchennBros

My view is that I really just don't know what the story is with Evander Kane. Is he really a bad guy, who will always be a bad guy and would be disruptive to a locker room? Or is he just a young kid who opens his mouth a lot before starting his brain, and is actually a good kid. I don't know. I'm not going to jump to a conclusion this time, and make a judgement from afar, based on insufficient info. I did that before with a player, and was dead wrong about. When Ray Emery was first bought up as potential player for the Flyers, I wanted no parts of him based on his reputation. Well that was obviously a wrong conclusion. Because Emery in both his stints with the Flyers has been a great guy and a good teammate by all accounts.

This is actually true, and surprisingly cogent considering it came from you. I'm not a huge believer in the value of WOWY at the moment.

This personal crusade you have against stats... this thing is marching ahead with or without you. The numbers aren't perfect (yet), but there are very smart people working to refine/expand our rational understanding of the sport... and I think that makes it a VERY exciting and interesting time to be a hockey fan.


- Tomahawk

I think you are all fools. Stats or no stats.

This is actually true, and surprisingly cogent considering it came from you. I'm not a huge believer in the value of WOWY at the moment.

This personal crusade you have against stats... this thing is marching ahead with or without you. The numbers aren't perfect (yet), but there are very smart people working to refine/expand our rational understanding of the sport... and I think that makes it a VERY exciting and interesting time to be a hockey fan.


- Tomahawk

There's some nice insults you put in there. I'll skip returning in kind, I don't need to go there. I'll stick to the topic at hand.

The same smart people who are working to refine and expand our rational understanding of the sport, is who I formed my opinion on advanced stats from. And what they've wrote about them, and what the flaws are, and how the correct context needs to be used. I've studied Corsi extensively. I didn't just wake up and decide to have a crusade.
And secondly, my biggest issues with Corsi and using it to rate individual players, is a sound opinion, that can be backed up with reference material. And I've yet to see any of the Corsi proponents of this thread, prove that the issue doesn't exist, and why it's not a flaw of Corsi. It's just tapped danced around as if it doesn't exist.

Let's look at a Hockey pioneer in Roger Neilson. Who used video to correct the flaws of the Roth/Irvin +/- system. He actually reviewed game tape, and removed the false data, and only awarded a +/- to players that earned it or deserved it. And it was a far more accurate system.
Imaging if that could be done with Corsi? Remove the false data. Then we'd have something far more viable and reliable. Corsi is a good team stat, because the false data doesn't matter in that context.

Honestly I don't know how much I see it going up. The cap that is. Smaller market teams already have a harder time competing with the bigger markets. I do think having a big pocket book still holds true in the new NHL. To a point anyway. I cant see the cap sky rocketing again and again. Its not as if the US, or NA for that matter is booming. Unless hockey become more of an elitist sport than it is.

Ill end this here though, Im not a cap guy by any means, doesn't tickle my fancy too much.
- flyer_nutter

The Cap is going to go up, and so is player salary. And MacDonald's deal will be cheap in a few short years. Look at Giroux's deal, oh my gosh, 8.275M a year! Well Kane and Toews just re-signed for 10.5M. It's already happening, and is going to continue to happen.

I look at the Evander Kane situation similar to a disgruntled employee. I think alot of us lose sight of the fact that it is a job for these guys. So imagine going to place you didn't enjoy being at.

Your work suffers. Your attitude changes. Maybe you don't like your boss. Or the company itself isn't successful. It doesn't take away that you are a good worker but you need a change of scenery and a fresh start so you can be happy.

Same rules apply to athletes. I think Kane just needs to play somewhere he can win and be happy. I was sort of hoping the rumors about Philly being interested in him were true. I would love to see Kane at LW with G and Voracek. He would easily get 35 or more goals.

What I learned back reading the last 4 pages

Only in hockey is 3/4 > 4/5, or maybe it's equal.
Or we can just wipe out the 4's and say that 3>5, which is finally true.
except in Hockey where sometimes, 3=5