To me LeCavalier is a healthy scratch if not a fourth line C.

To me LeCavalier is a healthy scratch if not a fourth line C.
- flyer_nutter

He had a rough year without consistantly playing the position he requested to play upon signing here and now everyone wants his head. Make him 2nd line C and move Schenn to 1st line LW. Vinny can rip that one timer still and we just dont use him the way we should for what he has left

I actually hated the Downie deal. To me, that deal personifies what was wrong with Holmgren's tenure, why he could not get them over the hump. Downie is a grinder, energy player with above average offensive talent. Yes, he has a little pop. But he is not a truly gifted player.

They needed to acquire someone with more skill. They needed someone who could have blossomed on the first line, or even the 2nd line. Now, realistically you would not have gotten this player in a one-for-one deal with Talbot. But in putting their eggs in the Downie basket and hoping this would work out, it precluded them from trying to orchestrate a bigger deal for a more highly-skilled player.

It's like my friend who has a crappy girlfriend, but rationalizes that a crappy GF is better than no GF at all. Not true, because she sucks up all his time that could be used to finding a better GF.
- TheGreat28

Should they have been expected to acquire a player with more skill, with who they gave up in the trade? If Downie had stayed healthy, he would've helped the team. with the addition of Raffl, along with the decline in Talbot's defensive game, it was a good move. Unfortuantely injuries, which nobody can predict, affected Downie.
Trading Talbot for Downie didn't preclude them from making a bigger move.

To me LeCavalier is a healthy scratch if not a fourth line C.
- flyer_nutter

I think that's what most of us fear...a terrible allocation of assets, cap space, etc.

I'm hoping for the best with VL this coming season, and just hope he isn't an...

I'm 100 percent confident that very little said on this site is "fact". And, unlike some, I don't pretend what I say is 'truth', just opinion. But I'm quite confident Raffl is a lock for this upcoming season over players like Rinaldo, Akeson, Rosehill, etc. Beyond that, don't know, don't care. And yes, every single player across all of sports has to prove year in and year out they can get it done, or there will be changes.
- wolfhounds

Raffl has to do it again. Simple. We're not committed to him like we are Giroux, Simmonds and Read. As it stands we're not committed to B.Schenn, Couturier or Voracek but it's a safe bet that we want them to be apart of this team's future. Is Raffl within this group? Maybe. Maybe not. Of course he'll make the team but I wouldn't at all be shocked if he was shipped out for nothing and no reason within the next 3 to 5 years simply because we don't need him anymore.

To me LeCavalier is a healthy scratch if not a fourth line C.
- flyer_nutter

I still think he has the ability to be an effective second line C, but the organization is sold on Schenn for that role and Vinny on the wing just doesn't work out. I also highly doubt we can trade him unless A.)We retain upwards to half his salary, or B.) We take on a contract almost as bad (for Nash, that would probably be Gaustad who's also an overpaid 4th liner at this point).

Nodl had 10 game stretches that rivaled Raffl's entire season. Take Nodl's best 10 game stretch as a Flyer and that was Raffl's entire season.
- PhillySportsGuy

There is no question Raffl has played well but I think you overrate him. It was one season. He simply has to prove he can keep doing what he's done.

Not to mention, most likely the primary purpose of the trade was to shed salary for this year considering Talbot was locked up for the next season and Downie was going to be heading straight to free agency. I actually thought this was one of Homer's better deals.
- Litepow

Agreed. Talbot was very good his first season as a Flyer. After that, he was average at best.

To me LeCavalier is a healthy scratch if not a fourth line C.
- flyer_nutter

Raffl has to do it. Simple. We're not committed to him like we are Giroux, Simmonds and Read. As it stands we're not committed B.Schenn, Couturier or Voracek but it's a safe bet that we want them to be apart of this team's future. Is Raffl within this group? Maybe. Maybe not. Of course he'll make the team but I wouldn't at all be shocked if he was shipped out for nothing and no reason within the next 3 to 5 years simply because we don't need him anymore.
- SuperSchennBros

When I look at Raffl, I see a player who plays the right way. He has a strong motor, and he's on the puck in all 3 zones. He shows good awareness and hockey sense. He frequently in the right place at the right time. As long as he doesn't lose his hustle and determination on the puck, he'll continue to be a solid role player. If he can add some more offense to his game, and some finish. he might be more.

Raffl has to do it again. Simple. We're not committed to him like we are Giroux, Simmonds and Read. As it stands we're not committed to B.Schenn, Couturier or Voracek but it's a safe bet that we want them to be apart of this team's future. Is Raffl within this group? Maybe. Maybe not. Of course he'll make the team but I wouldn't at all be shocked if he was shipped out for nothing and no reason within the next 3 to 5 years simply because we don't need him anymore.
- SuperSchennBros

Yup. Can't argue with any of that. And the above goes for most players in professional sports...it's a 'what have you done for me lately' profession.

When I look at Raffl, I see a player who plays the right way. He has a strong motor, and he's on the puck in all 3 zones. He shows good awareness and hockey sense. He frequently in the right place at the right time. As long as he doesn't lose his hustle and determination on the puck, he'll continue to be a solid role player. If he can add some more offense to his game, and some finish. he might be more.
- MJL

Andreas Nodl and Mike Pyorala virtually played the same style as Michael Raffl. I'm not comparing Raffl to bad players. I'm comparing him to players who came here, did their part and disappeared.

Bill likes to give conservative expectations for players. I think thats reasonable and much smarter than listing the player's ceiling. I, also, think Bill's expectations for Raffl are greater now than they were this time last year.

Look what Bill called Laughton in his blog this morning. He said he's likely to become a third line grinder. Thats pretty much the floor for Laughton imo. He could become that type of player, but he has some upside as well.
- PhillySportsGuy

I actually think Bill gives the most realistic evaluation of a player - a combination of his potential plus probability to reach it. Laughton is a great example. Most prognosticators give the same evaluation of Laughton - 3rd line shut-down center as his upside. Some offensive pop, but defense first. Even Ian Laperriere gave the same assessment of Laughton last year.

Most fans here overvalue prospects. Ghost is a lock, Morin is the next Pronger, etc. I tend to side with Bill. There will always be the player who is an exception to the rule and way outperforms expectations. But there is a reason he's the exception and the rule is much more conservative.

I think that's what most of us fear...a terrible allocation of assets, cap space, etc.

I'm hoping for the best with VL this coming season, and just hope he isn't an...


- wolfhounds

I hope he's not one of those parts of a motorcycle that protects the front wheel either

To me LeCavalier is a healthy scratch if not a fourth line C.
- flyer_nutter

Oh...oh we know

I hope he's not one of those parts of a motorcycle that protects the front wheel either
- Giroux_Is_God

A fender?

A fender?
- flyer_nutter

Dude I'm not a motorcycle guy, ok?

But yeah google definitely tells me that's what it is

Do you guys want E Kane. On the Jets post they are asking for trade possibilities

I proposed

To Jets: The Schenns and Umberger

To Flyers: Kane and Buf



I know Buf may not be the " physically fit" player Chief is looking for, but he can put up the numbers and provides a physical presence.

The Flyers could pencil Kane in on first unit, move 14 to 2nd line and VL to 3rd

The jets would get their" top 6 forward" they were looking for in return along with a solid 2 way player.

Flyers could look to trade for Hayes or sign Seto

Yup. Can't argue with any of that. And the above goes for most players in professional sports...it's a 'what have you done for me lately' profession.
- wolfhounds

I hear you but I also feel the organization has a pretty good idea of who this team's core is now and moving forward. There are just some players an organization is willing to continue working with through the good and the bad, while assuming a player might only be a role player because role players you can easily reach out and grab. Is Raffl a role player? In my opinion Dan Paille is a solid role player. He's even been lucky enough to be apart of a championship but I wouldn't say his spot is ever safe anywhere. I'm sure Boston wouldn't hesitate to move on from him if they had to and never skip a beat moving forward.

I hope he's not one of those parts of a motorcycle that protects the front wheel either
- Giroux_Is_God

No room on this team for mudguards!

Do you guys want E Kane. On the Jets post they are asking for trade possibilities

I proposed

To Jets: The Schenns and Umberger

To Flyers: Kane and Buf



I know Buf may not be the " physically fit" player Chief is looking for, but he can put up the numbers and provides a physical presence.

The Flyers could pencil Kane in on first unit, move 14 to 2nd line and VL to 3rd

The jets would get their" top 6 forward" they were looking for in return along with a solid 2 way player.

Flyers could look to trade for Hayes or sign Seto
- 3flyerkids

I think they would laugh at you for that proposal for Evander alone. We are female doges up here.

A fender?
- flyer_nutter

eww, look at the big brain on nutter...

Do you guys want E Kane. On the Jets post they are asking for trade possibilities

I proposed

To Jets: The Schenns and Umberger

To Flyers: Kane and Buf



I know Buf may not be the " physically fit" player Chief is looking for, but he can put up the numbers and provides a physical presence.

The Flyers could pencil Kane in on first unit, move 14 to 2nd line and VL to 3rd

The jets would get their" top 6 forward" they were looking for in return along with a solid 2 way player.

Flyers could look to trade for Hayes or sign Seto
- 3flyerkids

Should they have been expected to acquire a player with more skill, with who they gave up in the trade? If Downie had stayed healthy, he would've helped the team. with the addition of Raffl, along with the decline in Talbot's defensive game, it was a good move. Unfortuantely injuries, which nobody can predict, affected Downie.
Trading Talbot for Downie didn't preclude them from making a bigger move.
- MJL

This is my clearly my opinion. But the point is, they made a move thinking it would satisfy a requirement. The requirement, at the time and which was clearly stated by Holmgren, is that they needed more offense and Downie was a player whom they felt could provide that offensive spark. At the time, comments were also made that he could play up and down the lineup, and was positioned as a 1st line winger with Giroux.

Because they considered the requirement fulfilled, they did not look to fulfill it with other options.

I'll give you an analogy. Downie was basically one of those Toyotas or Nissans that kids pimp up and try to race with. Yes, you can race them. And yes, they're street legal so you can still use them for every day use. At the time, the Flyers needed a real race car - a one-dimensional Ferrari. Still do.

Downie was a grinder with some offensive pop. They needed a true 1st (or even 2nd) line winger.

When I look at Raffl, I see a player who plays the right way. He has a strong motor, and he's on the puck in all 3 zones. He shows good awareness and hockey sense. He frequently in the right place at the right time. As long as he doesn't lose his hustle and determination on the puck, he'll continue to be a solid role player. If he can add some more offense to his game, and some finish. he might be more.
- MJL

A nice, complementary piece. I like him. But the Flyers need more primary pieces.