Other than the correct #'s?

Evander Kane: 2:13 PP TOI/g (5th highest avg for Jets fwds)
Milan Lucic: 2:20 PP TOI/g (3rd highest avg for Bruins fwds)
- DrChristianTroy

Yes, bear with me, my apologies, that was a brain cramp. They do have similar PP numbers but there is still a significant difference in Average Ice Time per game.

Also, I think you're being a bit liberal when you say Lucic had the 3rd highest PP ice-time. Technically yes, that is true; however, it is only by a few seconds as concerns several other players. The same goes for Kane, who was just a few seconds behind other players in terms of PP time

In any case, sorry, my bad about the PP comparisons (there is my one mistake for the year )

Yes, bear with me, my apologies, that was a brain cramp. They do have similar PP numbers but there is still a significant difference in Average Ice Time per game.

Also, I think you're being a bit liberal when you say Lucic had the 3rd highest ice-time. Technically yes, but only by a few seconds as concerns several other players

In any case, sorry, my bad about the PP comparisons (there is my one mistake for the year )
- Zogg

I am saving mine for next year.

Yes, bear with me, my apologies, that was a brain cramp. They do have similar PP numbers but there is still a significant difference in Average Ice Time per game.
- Zogg

Similar PP TOI doesn't mean similar opportunities. Lucic's numbers are up there with the #1 unit so he's out there with Chara and Krejci. Kane is out there with Winnipeg's lefotvers which is akin to being on the Canucks' 2nd unit. Not much of an opportunity. The rest of the TOI difference is because Kane kills penalties while Lurchic takes deep breaths into a paper bag.

Similar PP TOI doesn't mean similar opportunities. Lucic's numbers are up there with the #1 unit so he's out there with Chara and Krejci. Kane is out there with Winnipeg's lefotvers which is akin to being on the Canucks' 2nd unit. Not much of an opportunity. The rest of the TOI difference is because Kane kills penalties while Lurchic takes deep breaths into a paper bag.
- DrChristianTroy

Well, there goes the Lucic authographed jersey which the whole gang here on Hockeybuzz were going to send to you for Christmas.... Why can't you just have nice things???

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree. Even if the numbers were equal, I would still have to say I'd take Lucic. Namely, because I just prefer the proven commodity to a player who is good but has all this 'potential' (and whether or not it's just perception, I'm not a fan of Kane's attitude and seemingly me-first philosophy). I think we've been down that road with a lot of players, only to ultimately see them bust (please note, I don't have the same sort of hate-on for Kane as most people seem to, so would love to get an asset like that. Not to mention, I am fairly certain a change of scenery would be beneficial for both him and the Jets)

I am saving mine for next year.
- VANTEL

nice to stagger them out that way

Ehrhoff > Edler

You guys made a mistakenof letting him go a few years ago.

Similar PP TOI doesn't mean similar opportunities. Lucic's numbers are up there with the #1 unit so he's out there with Chara and Krejci. Kane is out there with Winnipeg's lefotvers which is akin to being on the Canucks' 2nd unit. Not much of an opportunity. The rest of the TOI difference is because Kane kills penalties while Lurchic takes deep breaths into a paper bag.
- DrChristianTroy

You're actually spot on about Kane playing with sh*tty linemates. Over the last 2 years Kane's "quality of teammates on-ice" ranks 12th out of 13 regular Jets forwards at even strength. He plays the 7th toughest minutes.

Lucic ranks 7th in quality of linemates but plays on a much deeper/stronger team so that difference between the two is more significant than just their rankings on their own teams. Lucic also plays the 3rd-easiest minutes on the team among forwards.

Lucic averages 2.18 points per 60 ES minutes played in "close game" situations with easier minuts on a better team over the past 2 years. Lucic averages just 0.665 goals per 60 ES minutes in close game situations.

Kane averages 2.07 in the same situations on a worse team with harder minutes during that same time. He also averages 0.973 goals per 60 ES mins in "close" game situations.


By "close" I mean 1 goal games or less. The reason most people use these numbers is because some forward numbers are inflated for when they're team's trailing by multiple goals on the other team just sits back.

Factor in age and contract on top of all this and I'll take Kane over Lucic as a player.

Ehrhoff > Edler

You guys made a mistakenof letting him go a few years ago.
- Orpik44

Might be time for a username change.

Might be time for a username change.
- Nucker101

Haha good one. Actually I've been trying to do just that

You're actually spot on about Kane playing with sh*tty linemates. Over the last 2 years Kane's "quality of teammates on-ice" ranks 12th out of 13 regular Jets forwards at even strength. He plays the 7th toughest minutes.

Lucic ranks 7th in quality of linemates but plays on a much deeper/stronger team so that difference between the two is more significant than just their rankings on their own teams. Lucic also plays the 3rd-easiest minutes on the team among forwards.

Lucic averages 2.18 points per 60 ES minutes played in "close game" situations with easier minuts on a better team over the past 2 years. Lucic averages just 0.665 goals per 60 ES minutes in close game situations.

Kane averages 2.07 in the same situations on a worse team with harder minutes during that same time. He also averages 0.973 goals per 60 ES mins in "close" game situations.


By "close" I mean 1 goal games or less. The reason most people use these numbers is because some forward numbers are inflated for when they're team's trailing by multiple goals on the other team just sits back.

Factor in age and contract on top of all this and I'll take Kane over Lucic as a player.
- Nucker101

Interesting, and appreciate your putting together the numbers - although where are you getting some of this data? namely, how did you assess both the 'easiest' ice-time to the 'hardest' ice-time. Isn't that quite the subjective sort of assessment? how are hard/easy minutes calculate or assembled? (sorry, not trying to be a d*ckhead but just curious)

As to contract and age (one player is 22 the other just turned 26, so I don't think that's really much of an issue). And as salary goes, Kane is going to be making $6 million next year. While Lucic will be making $5.5 and then $6, so again, these numbers are pretty much identical.

Anyway, perhaps I'm just more of a fan of Lucic?

(wait, I should have probably added quotation marks to 'fan - in other words, I haven't (yet) purchased any sort of Lucic themed pillow-biting attire/accessories, and am fairly certain that will not be occurring anywhere in the near future That said, I have no problem with his style of play

Interesting, and appreciate your putting together the numbers - although where are you getting some of this data? namely, how did you assess both the 'easiest' ice-time to the 'hardest' ice-time. Isn't that quite the subjective sort of assessment? how are hard/easy minutes calculate or assembled? (sorry, not trying to be a d*ckhead but just curious)

As to contract and age (one player is 22 the other just turned 26, so I don't think that's really much of an issue). And as salary goes, Kane is going to be making $6 million next year. While Lucic will be making $5.5 and then $6, so again, these numbers are pretty much identical.

Anyway, perhaps I'm just more of a fan of Lucic?

(wait, I should have probably added quotation marks to 'fan - in other words, I haven't (yet) purchased any sort of Lucic themed pillow-biting attire/accessories
- Zogg

I don't need numbers and stats . I have eyes. When LUcic is on the ice players are avoiding him and looking over their shoulder. I don't see that with Kane

I don't need numbers and stats . I have eyes. When LUcic is on the ice players are avoiding him and looking over their shoulder. I don't see that with Kane
- VANTEL

John Scott >>> Evander Kane

John Scott >>> Evander Kane
- DrChristianTroy

When did John Scott 30 goals?

Interesting, and appreciate your putting together the numbers - although where are you getting some of this data? namely, how did you assess both the 'easiest' ice-time to the 'hardest' ice-time. Isn't that quite the subjective sort of assessment? how are hard/easy minutes calculate or assembled? (sorry, not trying to be a d*ckhead but just curious)

As to contract and age (one player is 22 the other just turned 26, so I don't think that's really much of an issue). And as salary goes, Kane is going to be making $6 million next year. While Lucic will be making $5.5 and then $6, so again, these numbers are pretty much identical.

Anyway, perhaps I'm just more of a fan of Lucic?


- Zogg

I'd take Kane over Lucic. Both appear to have potential attitude issues but Kane is younger, cheaper with a greater offensive upside.

My concern is what would be required to acquire him. I don't like the idea of mortgaging the future for one player.

Ehrhoff > Edler

You guys made a mistakenof letting him go a few years ago.
- Orpik44

That's what Buffalo thought as well.

Erhoff and Letang should be interesting together!

I'd take Kane over Lucic. Both appear to have potential attitude issues but Kane is younger, cheaper with a greater offensive upside.

My concern is what would be required to acquire him. I don't like the idea of mortgaging the future for one player.
- Canuckleafer

I think the key thing with Lucic is, idiotic public comments aside and a bit of an archaic ole-time hockey philosophy (i.e. that whole shaking hands/kill you fiasco), he is nonetheless a quintessential team player (at least according to all the various sources).

And, as just stated above, the contract/terms for both players are virtually similar. And with Kane, as of this moment of time, we're primarily basing things on potential (and I think we all know how these things sometimes pan out). With Lucic, he has proven over a good sample size that he can be a very valuable and consistent offensive asset - not to mention all the other intangibles he brings.

Lastly,

Interesting, and appreciate your putting together the numbers - although where are you getting some of this data? namely, how did you assess both the 'easiest' ice-time to the 'hardest' ice-time. Isn't that quite the subjective sort of assessment? how are hard/easy minutes calculate or assembled? (sorry, not trying to be a d*ckhead but just curious)

As to contract and age (one player is 22 the other just turned 26, so I don't think that's really much of an issue). And as salary goes, Kane is going to be making $6 million next year. While Lucic will be making $5.5 and then $6, so again, these numbers are pretty much identical.

Anyway, perhaps I'm just more of a fan of Lucic?

(wait, I should have probably added quotation marks to 'fan - in other words, I haven't (yet) purchased any sort of Lucic themed pillow-biting attire/accessories, and am fairly certain that will not be occurring anywhere in the near future That said, I have no problem with his style of play
- Zogg

It's all good.

Multiple advanced stats site keep track of it. Some of them measure it by average ice-time of their most common linemates and some just look at their linemates possession stats. It must be a b*tch to calculate it either way, I'm sure most of these sits just have a program that run the numbers for them though. Many teams do the same themselves.

4 years of age is a big difference, sure it doesn't matter now. But it would down the road when one guy is 28 and the other is 32. It also means Kane has more room for growth(on and off the ice in his case ).

I don't buy the intimidation thing much, they average nearly the same number of his per game. There's no fighting in the playoffs. The small little Habs didn't seem scared of Lucic in the playoffs, the game is won with goals and strong possession play.

Give me the cup argument all day, but have them switch teams and age, and I'm pretty confident in betting that the Bruins still win the cup and the Jets are still where they are now, if not worse.


Neither will be Canucks anytime soon, so whatever.

It's all good.

Multiple advanced stats site keep track of it. Some of them measure it by average ice-time of their most common linemates and some just look at their linemates possession stats. It must be a b*tch to calculate it either way, I'm sure most of these sits just have a program that run the numbers for them though. Many teams do the same themselves.

4 years of age is a big difference, sure it doesn't matter now. But it would down the road when one guy is 28 and the other is 32. It also means Kane has more room for growth(on and off the ice in his case ).

I don't buy the intimidation thing much, they average nearly the same number of his per game. There's no fighting in the playoffs. The small little Habs didn't seem scared of Lucic in the playoffs, the game is won with goals and strong possession play.

Give me the cup argument all day, but have them switch teams and age, and I'm pretty confident in betting that the Bruins still win the cup and the Jets are still where they are now, if not worse.


Neither will be Canucks anytime soon, so whatever.
- Nucker101

LUcic is a free agent in two years, who says ?

LUcic is a free agent in two years, who says ?
- VANTEL

UFA classes always look great from 2-3 years out. Talk to me when it's just a couple of months to go before a star player's deal expires.

When did John Scott 30 goals?
- VANTEL

I thought you didn't need numbers and stats...

UFA classes always look great from 2-3 years out. Talk to me when it's just a couple of months to go before a star player's deal expires.
- Nucker101

Not saying he will come back but whose to say he doesn't want to play for Benning and Trev and also try to bring a cup here?

I thought you didn't need numbers and stats...
- DrChristianTroy

Well if you are saying that John Scott's talents are on par with LUcic then there is no reason to continue debating.

Well if you are saying that John Scott's talents are on par with LUcic then there is no reason to continue debating.
- VANTEL

Hasn't been much of a debate anyways. The facts say a 22yr old who's lacked opportunity is already as good/better than a 26yr old veteran "premier power forward" and the fact that there's any debate as to which one would be a better acquisition is crazy to me. Oh well, agree to disagree, I'd rather be watching The Bachelorette.

Not saying he will come back but whose to say he doesn't want to play for Benning and Trev and also try to bring a cup here?
- VANTEL

http://www.sportsnet.ca/h...ancouver-after-bar-fight/

Hasn't been much of a debate anyways. The facts say a 22yr old who's lacked opportunity is already as good/better than a 26yr old veteran "premier power forward" and the fact that there's any debate as to which one would be a better acquisition is crazy to me. Oh well, agree to disagree, I'd rather be watching The Bachelorette.
- DrChristianTroy

Bachelorette and John Scott on par with LUcic and Kane

I want whatever you are smoking tonight.