Bill Meltzer: Meltzer's Musings: Another Lecavalier Trade Route Closes

Bill is it that far of a streach to believe that Vinny gets off his butt and works himself into better shape more capable of handling the demands of Berbe's system. Gotta think his pride has to be kicking in at this point. . . . Never understood why we signed him and didn;t move another center. Thought B Shenn was gone when I heard Vinny signed. Just got though forcing Danny to play wing without success why we would open that door again is beyond me.

I say move Coots up to the 2nd line and use Vinny as a 3rd and 4th line Center/2nd PP Center. Whether they go Laughton or someone else as the last Center will determine if Vinny spends moretime on the 3rd or 4th line. Worst case sscenario you have 4 scoring lines.

Schenn G Jake
Read Coots Simmonds
Raffl Vinny Umberger
Bellemere Laughton Akeson

Ek said he may have nixed a deal to go to a Canadian team. I see Edmonton and Winnipeg as a fit because they value term, but it is a hard sell to get Vinny to waive for either. At this point, I'm fine with keeping him on the roster especially if Schenn is the heir apparent to Hartnell's spot.

I would try playing Vinny with Umberger and Raffl, two good skaters who are also defensively responsible.

Bill Meltzer: Meltzer's Musings: Another Lecavalier Trade Route Closes
- bmeltzer

FWIW, perhaps they should try the following. If I remember correctly, VL did have a hat trick playing on Giroux's right side.

Raffl-G-VL
Umberger-Schenn-Jake
Read-Couturier-Simmonds
PEB-Laughton-Akeson or Rinaldo

Use vinny as 4th line center and pp specialist. 10-12 mins a night

Ugh, what a downer of a blog, Bill. I hope Vinny is so proud that he busts his ass from training camp on, and I also hope Berube finds a fit to make VL shine within his system.

I say move Coots up to the 2nd line and use Vinny as a 3rd and 4th line Center/2nd PP Center. Whether they go Laughton or someone else as the last Center will determine if Vinny spends moretime on the 3rd or 4th line. Worst case sscenario you have 4 scoring lines.

Schenn G Jake
Read Coots Simmonds
Raffl Vinny Umberger
Bellemere Laughton Akeson
- hereticpride

If Laughton isn't considered ready you could also move Raffl to 4C and have Akeson play with Vinny. His passing ability would be a good match for Vinny's best attribute, his shot.

Can we talk about the cap please?

Unfortunately, the Flyers have essentially the same team they had at the end of last season. The one major change was the Scott Hartnell trade. Right now, it would take a major leap of faith to believe that Lecavalier will fit the system any more easily than he did last season.
- bmeltzer

brutal

I think now the ball is in Vinnys court. If he is truely wants top line minutes and top PP then he needs to open up his list f teams. If not then he can't sulk when Berube does what is best for the team and plays Vinny on the fourth line if that is what is needed

I think now the ball is in Vinnys court. If he is truely wants top line minutes and top PP then he needs to open up his list f teams. If not then he can't sulk when Berube does what is best for the team and plays Vinny on the fourth line if that is what is needed
- J35Bacher

I'd like to see them try Vinny at 2C with Schenn on Giroux's wing. If that doesn't work then I'd like to see Vinny on Giroux's wing, as BiggE suggested.

If all else fails, then the only other scenerio I could see work would him to be the 4C, as much as I don't like that idea.

I'd like to see them try Vinny at 2C with Schenn on Giroux's wing. If that doesn't work then I'd like to see Vinny on Giroux's wing, as BiggE suggested.

If all else fails, then the only other scenerio I could see work would him to be the 4C, as much as I don't like that idea.
- Streit2ThePoint

RE: Playing VL with Giroux

My thought was that he isn't any slower/worse defensively than Jagr and replacing Hartnell with Raffl on the left side adds speed and defensive awareness to the line. Plus I think VL can score 30+ goals if he plays with Giroux all year.

RE: Playing VL with Giroux

My thought was that he isn't any slower/worse defensively than Jagr and replacing Hartnell with Raffl on the left side adds speed and defensive awareness to the line. Plus I think VL can score 30+ goals if he plays with Giroux all year.
- BiggE

I think those are really the only two spots. Either at center with Simmonds and someone else or on Giouxs wing.

Also lets make things clear. If we want to give lines the 1,2,3,4 numbers then Couturier is our 2nd line center. His line plays just as much as giroux and sometimes more. People keep saying he needs to move to the 2nd line. He is already there.

I am probably in the minority but I am kind of hoping Morin and/or Alt have a great camp and stick with the Flyers. Having either one on an ELC would possibly allow u move a dman to free up some space. Maybe move one of Grossmann/Schenn/MacDonald to create a little space and possibly bring in a wing.

RE: Playing VL with Giroux

My thought was that he isn't any slower/worse defensively than Jagr and replacing Hartnell with Raffl on the left side adds speed and defensive awareness to the line. Plus I think VL can score 30+ goals if he plays with Giroux all year.
- BiggE

My thoughts exactly. I saw Vinny being that experienced veteran they had in Jagr (albeit not as great) to teach Giroux some pointers.

"In actuality, the spot where Lecavalier was most effective in the second half of the season came during his stint as fourth-liner center and power play specialist. However, that was not an arrangement that made either the player or the team very happy. Lecavalier is a proud player who is used to being a key contributor on his teams. He did not come to Philly to be a fourth line player or to shuttle around the lineup."

Bill,

I seem to remember berube or hex saying something along the lines of 'it was tough watching Vinny on the 4th line after his injury'. It was during the recent town hall from the link that was posted here but I don't have the time to search. I think a lot of people are under the impression that VL is no better than 4th line C because they are discounting the fact he played with a major injury for the last 30+ games. IIRC he seemed to do well before the injury (9 goals, 15 points in 22 games) playing in the top 6 mostly.

Can we talk about the cap please?
- Streit2ThePoint

Yes! The Flyers have plenty of it! It's burning a hole in Hextall's pocket!

This is a bit of a high-risk, high-reward gambit, but I'd consider the following:

1. Find a team that really needs centers and trade B. Schenn for a comparable young skilled LW. Speed is a must, and ability to carry the puck critical as well.

2. Put Vinnie at 2nd line center, and either give him Jake or whoever they get in a trade.

3. Put Laughton in the A at 1st line center. We need to see if he has any offensive ability, or if he really taps out as a defensive center.

4. See what happens at the trade deadline.

Best case - Vinnie has a great 1st half and Laughton tears it up in the minors. Then you could assess Vinnie's trade value and move Laughton or Couts into 2nd line spot. Or you could keep Vinnie and Laughton becomes a big bargaining chip.

If Vinnie has a great 1st half, and Laughton shows growing pains in the A, then you keep Vinnie for the year and give Laughton time to grow. If Laughton excels on D but shows little offense, you could still move Couts into the 2nd C spot and put Laughton on as 3rd C.

If Vinnie struggles but Laughton does well, then you have little choice but to buy out Vinnie, or demote him to the 4th line.

The worst case is obviously if they both struggle. Then, having traded Schenn you might have a temporary hole at 2nd line center.

I would seriously consider this assuming a) you could get a good young winger for Schenn, and b) they really are as high on Laughton as we think they are and they think Couturier has the potential to play 2nd line center.

Yes! The Flyers have plenty of it! It's burning a hole in Hextall's pocket!
- PLindbergh31

The Flyers have plenty of the cap?

The Flyers have plenty of the cap?
- BulliesPhan87

Avoid the cap.

-Jimmy Dugan

Avoid the cap.

-Jimmy Dugan
- aightwebang17

THAT'S GOOD ADVICE!

Supposedly, the Flyers have been unwilling to pick up any of Lecavalier's cap hit if they are going to make an otherwise unfavorable deal done specifically for cap relief. They are not interested in taking on someone other team's bad contract, either.
- bmeltzer

Good. I agree with that strategy 100%. If VL can get and remain healthy for the season he'll be more than a fine contributor.

I say move Coots up to the 2nd line and use Vinny as a 3rd and 4th line Center/2nd PP Center. Whether they go Laughton or someone else as the last Center will determine if Vinny spends moretime on the 3rd or 4th line. Worst case sscenario you have 4 scoring lines.

Schenn G Jake
Read Coots Simmonds
Raffl Vinny Umberger
Bellemere Laughton Akeson
- hereticpride

Vinny's primary problems are skating and playing defensively. HOW does that translate to pivoting the 3rd line? Of everything discussed in this thread, this is the worst idea.
1st line wing? eh, maybe on RW.
2nd line C with scorers? Good if THEY can skate.
4th line C with heavy PP time? Good IF he'll man up and accept it.
3rd line C with anyone? Where's Stan Hochman when you need somebody to say "Disaaaastah!"?

My thoughts exactly. I saw Vinny being that experienced veteran they had in Jagr (albeit not as great) to teach Giroux some pointers.
- Streit2ThePoint

Exactly. I love Jagr, but lets not kid ourselves he had lost at least 2 steps by then, and even in his prime, he wasn't exactly Bob Gainey when it came to defensive play. I could see a line of Raffl-G-VL putting up numbers like:

GP G A PTS
Raffl 75 14 25 39
Giroux 78 28 60 88
VL 70 33 24 57

I can live with that.