Avoid the cap.

-Jimmy Dugan
- aightwebang17

Good. I agree with that strategy 100%. If VL can get and remain healthy for the season he'll be more than a fine contributor.
- Scoob

If Vinny is the pro and competitor we've been told he is, I can see him bouncing back this year.

Whether the bounce back is commensurate with his salary cap....that remains to be seen, but the hope is, he's not the boat anchor he was last year.

I say move Coots up to the 2nd line and use Vinny as a 3rd and 4th line Center/2nd PP Center. Whether they go Laughton or someone else as the last Center will determine if Vinny spends moretime on the 3rd or 4th line. Worst case sscenario you have 4 scoring lines.

Schenn G Jake
Read Coots Simmonds
Raffl Vinny Umberger
Bellemere Laughton Akeson
- hereticpride

EXACTLY my thoughts, well done.

"In actuality, the spot where Lecavalier was most effective in the second half of the season came during his stint as fourth-liner center and power play specialist. However, that was not an arrangement that made either the player or the team very happy. Lecavalier is a proud player who is used to being a key contributor on his teams. He did not come to Philly to be a fourth line player or to shuttle around the lineup."

Bill,

I seem to remember berube or hex saying something along the lines of 'it was tough watching Vinny on the 4th line after his injury'. It was during the recent town hall from the link that was posted here but I don't have the time to search. I think a lot of people are under the impression that VL is no better than 4th line C because they are discounting the fact he played with a major injury for the last 30+ games. IIRC he seemed to do well before the injury (9 goals, 15 points in 22 games) playing in the top 6 mostly.
- moylander

Yea, it's not all doom and gloom. While the description of Lecavalier's season is accurate, I think the injury was a major factor in that. And if he's healthy and can stay healthy, I see no reason why Lecavalier can't bounce back and have a solid season. And he also can apply himself better defensively, to improve that part of the game. All is not lost. The Sun hasn't set on Lecavalier yet.

I'd like to see them try Vinny at 2C with Schenn on Giroux's wing. If that doesn't work then I'd like to see Vinny on Giroux's wing, as BiggE suggested.

If all else fails, then the only other scenerio I could see work would him to be the 4C, as much as I don't like that idea.
- Streit2ThePoint

I bet G's production will drop because B Schenn is overrated.

Avoid the cap.

-Jimmy Dugan
- aightwebang17

I bet G's production will drop because B Schenn is overrated.
- tk71

In what regards? How is he overrated?

Bill is it that far of a streach to believe that Vinny gets off his butt and works himself into better shape more capable of handling the demands of Berbe's system. Gotta think his pride has to be kicking in at this point. . . . Never understood why we signed him and didn;t move another center. Thought B Shenn was gone when I heard Vinny signed. Just got though forcing Danny to play wing without success why we would open that door again is beyond me.
- mhbst7

Thing is, Vinny is in excellent condition.

Thing is, Vinny is in excellent condition.
- bmeltzer

Is he 100% in regards to health?

Thing is, Vinny is in excellent condition.
- bmeltzer

Yeah... he could work out harder all he wants, but at 34, his skating just is what it is.

I think now the ball is in Vinnys court. If he is truely wants top line minutes and top PP then he needs to open up his list f teams. If not then he can't sulk when Berube does what is best for the team and plays Vinny on the fourth line if that is what is needed
- J35Bacher

Doubt you'll ever see him really sulk... he was a bit intransigent about playing LW, but otherwise, he took misfortune on the chin like a champ.

What are the implications for Pronger goino n LTIR before the season vs. the first day?

Yeah... he could work out harder all he wants, but at 34, his skating just is what it is.
- Tomahawk

Not the worst thing in the world to have Vinny next year. Sky isn't falling, yet

If it is true that he rejected a trade to a Canadian team then it is on him if he is playing fourth line next year. I won't shed a tear for VL.

Can we talk about the cap please?
- Streit2ThePoint

Give it time

What are the implications for Pronger goino n LTIR before the season vs. the first day?
- redcoat75

http://www.broadstreethoc...s-salary-cap-pronger-ltir

Exactly. I love Jagr, but lets not kid ourselves he had lost at least 2 steps by then, and even in his prime, he wasn't exactly Bob Gainey when it came to defensive play. I could see a line of Raffl-G-VL putting up numbers like:

GP G A PTS
Raffl 75 14 25 39
Giroux 78 28 60 88
VL 70 33 24 57

I can live with that.
- BiggE

Why on earth would you believe Vinny would score 33 goals especially in only 70 games?

Why on earth would you believe Vinny would score 33 goals especially in only 70 games?
- aoh718

He scored 20 in 69 games last season playing in different spots in the lineup. He's just saying Vinny could put up 30+ goals playing on Giroux's wing all season, which is entirely possible.

What are the implications for Pronger goino n LTIR before the season vs. the first day?
- redcoat75

To put Pronger on LTIR after the season officially starts, the Flyers would have to get under the $69M cap. One possible way to do this is to trade Grossmann for a pick. If they could do that they would have almost the entirety of Pronger's $4.94M cap hit in usable space. They could use that to recall players from the minors, and sign UFAs.

Last season they used the space to recall Adam Hall, and to sign Hall Gill.

Why on earth would you believe Vinny would score 33 goals especially in only 70 games?
- aoh718

I believe that he can score around 8-10 on the pp and 20-25 at ES is he is healthy and plays with Giroux all season. G, IMO, is one of those players who makes the players he skates with better.

Conversely, I think Hartnell struggles to break 20 goals in Columbus this season, he will miss Giroux.

Thing is, Vinny is in excellent condition.
- bmeltzer

Thought your blog dealt with the entire matter in a really insightful manner. People want to believe it is about condition or emotional intensity. It is about speed. LeCavalier in his prime was a magnificent skater. Even losing half a step changes your game dramatically. Mostly it affects your defensive play. Likely can stay strong in the offensive zone but are unable to get back in time to help in you end.

People forget that your center is your first call to back up to both defensemen in the triangle in front of the net and in the corners. Dmen get blamed all the time for goals that are scored from the slot where the center was able to get back to take his man.

Exactly. I love Jagr, but lets not kid ourselves he had lost at least 2 steps by then, and even in his prime, he wasn't exactly Bob Gainey when it came to defensive play. I could see a line of Raffl-G-VL putting up numbers like:

GP G A PTS
Raffl 75 14 25 39
Giroux 78 28 60 88
VL 70 33 24 57

I can live with that.
- BiggE

Jags was also a great possession player, which meant his skating and defensive issues were mitigated somewhat by his line having the puck more.

Vinny has been a poor/bad possession player over the past several seasons.

Thought your blog dealt with the entire matter in a really insightful manner. People want to believe it is about condition or emotional intensity. It is about speed. LeCavalier in his prime was a magnificent skater. Even losing half a step changes your game dramatically. Mostly it affects your defensive play. Likely can stay strong in the offensive zone but are unable to get back in time to help in you end.

People forget that your center is your first call to back up to both defensemen in the triangle in front of the net and in the corners. Dmen get blamed all the time for goals that are scored from the slot where the center was able to get back to take his man.
- spatso

You can mitigate that with a good defensive winger like a Hossa.

To put Pronger on LTIR after the season officially starts, the Flyers would have to get under the $69M cap. One possible way to do this is to trade Grossmann for a pick. If they could do that they would have almost the entirety of Pronger's $4.94M cap hit in usable space. They could use that to recall players from the minors, and sign UFAs.

Last season they used the space to recall Adam Hall, and to sign Hall Gill.
- Feanor

Problem on the cap will likely be a lot more severe each year going forward until their is a long term resolution. Fixing it requires a major deal where a big chunk of salary goes out and a lot less salary comes back (eg. Schenn, Scehenn, Umberger and LaCavalier for Kane). Now, of course, Winnipeg would never do that deal (too much salary) but you need to find something that changes the balance.

I'm a little surprised he wasn't part of a package trade with Hartnell to Nashville earlier? I would have thought Hartnell would want to go back to Nashville before Columbus. Maybe because Vinny didn't want to.

Yeah... he could work out harder all he wants, but at 34, his skating just is what it is.
- Tomahawk

Yes and no. What his skating was before the injury, and what it was after the injury were two different things.