Michael Del Zotto... still out there.

Don't worry, MJL is here to enlighten you.
- Tomahawk

Michael Del Zotto... still out there.
- Tomahawk

Small potatoes compared to the big names like Simon Gagne, Darrell Powe, Tim Thomas, Ville Leino, Ryan Malone, and Ilya Bryzgalov.

What in God's name is Roenick blathering about?
- hereticpride

ANything so he can hear himself

Small potatoes compared to the big names like Simon Gagne, Darrell Powe, Tim Thomas, Ville Leino, Ryan Malone, and Ilya Bryzgalov.
- aflyerpower8

Nodl

does he have to continue to prove himself? yes? do i give a poop if he's 8, 10, or 15 on some list? no. the difference that separates the top goalies is extremely small - to the point where i'd say i'd be fine with having any of them. i'm happy with mason. i like his game a lot, for many reasons, and i like that he's entering his prime years right now while on the upswing. that's really all that matters.
- hammarby31

I have to call BS on this one. We all know your hatred for CSP.

Every goaltender who is considered a top goaltender in the League, had to earn his way there. And at some point was where Mason is now. On the verge of establishing himself as a top goaltender. If he continues to play the way he did in the playoffs last year, he'll eventually earn that respect. I have no problem with anyone saying he's not there yet. But he's on his way. And I agree with those who say they don't care where he ranks, as long as he stops the dang puck!

yep. terrific film.

it has winged arms and literally sucks the body out of its prey leaving nothing but bones and a bit of goo.
- hammarby31

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=-SegQXGEGKw

Mason was so good in the playoffs that I don't know how anyone could have watched those games and still think he doesn't have what it takes to win a cup.
- aflyerpower8

Too many knocks to the already not particularly clever noggin.

And I must have missed the "couple of" moves Mason made. Does he include a drive through PA on the way to Philly as a couple of moves?

Actually they were mediocre after the deadline going 10-9-1.
- Feanor

The Blues are a great example of too much tinkering. They were great most of the year, added Miller and Ott and suddenly were pedestrian. Miller was shaky after coming over from Buffalo and was less than inspiring in the playoffs. Ott really didn't help a whole lot, either.

Michael Del Zotto... still out there.
- Tomahawk

He's no Brooks Orpik

I have to call BS on this one. We all know your hatred for CSP.

- MJL

well my perspective is biased and blatantly tainted because he's a ranger. i've never hidden that. if he played elsewhere, i'd probably be happy to have him. let it also be noted that i believe he's a lovely human being, and i have no personal ill-will towards him.

Every goaltender who is considered a top goaltender in the League, had to earn his way there. And at some point was where Mason is now. On the verge of establishing himself as a top goaltender. If he continues to play the way he did in the playoffs last year, he'll eventually earn that respect. I have no problem with anyone saying he's not there yet. But he's on his way. And I agree with those who say they don't care where he ranks, as long as he stops the dang puck!
- MJL

i agree, but to say he's "not capable" or philly "won't win the cup with him", like JR said, is absolute (frank)ing bullpoop stupidity.

Too many knocks to the already not particularly clever noggin.

And I must have missed the "couple of" moves Mason made. Does he include a drive through PA on the way to Philly as a couple of moves?
- bodiva88

maybe he was referring to the all the crease diving mason did for 4 years because the team in front of him sucked ass.

He's no Brooks Orpik
- Jsaquella

- PhillySportsGuy

i agree, but to say he's "not capable" or philly "won't win the cup with him", like JR said, is absolute (frank)ing bullpoop stupidity.
- hammarby31

Well I would say at the least it's unknown. And that's really my point. Until a goalie actually does it, nobody knows. And it's been the same with every goalie. They all start out somewhere, and then reach those heights. It's just not a statement that can be made as a fact. It's just his opinion. I'm more concerned about the team in front of Mason, then I am of Mason.

Michael Del Zotto... still out there.
- Tomahawk

This is surprising to me. I didn't see much of him on the Preds. Was he really that bad?

I suppose when the Preds give up on a D man that alone tells you something.

The Blues are a great example of too much tinkering. They were great most of the year, added Miller and Ott and suddenly were pedestrian. Miller was shaky after coming over from Buffalo and was less than inspiring in the playoffs. Ott really didn't help a whole lot, either.
- Jsaquella

On the surface, they looked like they were right there w/ LA, CHI and SJ, but a look under the hood showed that their bottom-end depth just didn't match up. It's no surprise that it eventually caught up with them, and as you said, was probably hastened by adding Ott. Losing Sobotka is a dagger.

Did you get a chance to see Dimitri Filipovic's snazzy tiered breakdown of every team? It visualized what the Blues were up against in the West:

- Part 1: Eastern Conference Forwards
- Part 2: Western Conference Forwards
- Part 3: Eastern Conference Defensemen
- Part 4: Western Conference Defensemen

I try not to base my judgement primarily on stats, but what I like most about Mason was his play in the playoffs. Even the games they lost, I thought he played well. This skill set is there, and I think he has it mentally also. The playoffs are when your best players should play like stars and I feel he has the intangible in him. Doesn't seem to fold under the bright lights.

We can debate his rank among the NHL goalies until the cows come home, but I feel Philly can win a Cup with Mason as the netminder. All I need to see out of him is to continue to play his game and hope he stays consistent.

I try not to base my judgement primarily on stats, but what I like most about Mason was his play in the playoffs. Even the games they lost, I thought he played well. This skill set is there, and I think he has it mentally also. The playoffs are when your best players should play like stars and I feel he has the intangible in him. Doesn't seem to fold under the bright lights.

We can debate his rank among the NHL goalies until the cows come home, but I feel Philly can win a Cup with Mason as the netminder. All I need to see out of him is to continue to play his game and hope he stays consistent.
- Pelle31Forever

It wont matter if they have Quick back there until the D gets an infusion of higher end talent.

When Timonen was still in his prime they brought in another warhorse in Pronger to push them over the top.

Well I would say at the least it's unknown. And that's really my point. Until a goalie actually does it, nobody knows. And it's been the same with every goalie. They all start out somewhere, and then reach those heights. It's just not a statement that can be made as a fact. It's just his opinion. I'm more concerned about the team in front of Mason, then I am of Mason.
- MJL

agreed.

On the surface, they looked like they were right there w/ LA, CHI and SJ, but a look under the hood showed that their bottom-end depth just didn't match up. It's no surprise that it eventually caught up with them, and as you said, was probably hastened by adding Ott. Losing Sobotka is a dagger.

Did you get a chance to see Dimitri Filipovic's snazzy tiered breakdown of every team? It visualized what the Blues were up against in the West:

- Part 1: Eastern Conference Forwards
- Part 2: Western Conference Forwards
- Part 3: Eastern Conference Defensemen
- Part 4: Western Conference Defensemen
- Tomahawk

wow

super smart guy doesn't know the difference between weary leery and wary

wow

super smart guy doesn't know the difference between weary leery and wary
- -davies-

Weary, Leery, and Wary.... they were the Three Stooges, right?

Fair point and interesting topic. As most things it's probably a combination of team d and goalie and how they work together that make for a good match.

A relevant question for everyone including Bill: where would you rank Mason right now in the league?

Example:
1. Henrik
2. Quick
3. Price
4. Pikka
5. Smith
6. Rask
7. Crawford
8. Bob
9. Mason
- coffee junkie

Oh man I'm about to put way too much time into this...

Ok this chart shows the Vezina voting from last year, as well as each of the top 9 goalie's regular season and playoff record and stats. It goes rank by voting point total-name-team-voting point total. In parenthesis are the number of votes each goalie got for 1st-2nd-3rd place. In brackets is the goalies W-L-SV%-GAA for the season. In curly brackets are their W-L-OTL-SV%-GAA for the playoffs.

-----------------------------------------------Regular Seaon-----------Playoffs-------
RANK--NAME-----TEAM---PT---1--2--3--W---L-OTL-SV%-GAA---W-L--SV%-GAA
1------Rask-------BOS---103-(16-6-5)-[36-15-6--.930--2.04]{7-5-.928--1.99}
2------Varlamov--COL----90-(9-13-6)-[41-14-6--.927--2.41]{3-4-.913--2.78}
3------Bishop-----TB------32-(1-6-9)---[37-14-7--.924--2.23]
4------Price-------MTL----26--(2-3-7)---[34-20-5--.927--2.32]{8-4-.919--2.35}
5------Quick-------LA------9--(1-1-1)---[27-17-4--.915--2.07]{16-10-.911-2.58}
6------Lundqvist-NYR-----5--(1-0-0)---[33-24-5--.920-2.36]{13-12-.921-2.15}
7------Mason-----PHI-----3--(0-1-0)---[33-18-7--.917-2.50]{2--2---.939-1.97}
8------Bobrovsky-CBJ----1--(0-0-1)---[32-20-5--.923-2.38]{2--4---.908-2.17}
9------Lehtonen--DAL----1--(0-0-1)--[33-20-10-..919-2.41]{2--4--.885-3.30}

In my opinion, save percentage is more important that goals allowed average. save percentage has always stood out to me as a slightly more individual stat, while goals allowed average has always stood out as a slightly more team-driven stat. Obviously, Vezina voting is only valuable for regular season performance, not overall. I think that playoff performance is considerably more important than regular season. That makes it hard to rearrange this order because of someone like Bishop who didn't play in the playoffs this year, and who has never played an NHL playoff game. There is probably a way to find out if Ben Bishop is a clutch goalie through stats. Or you could just ask a Tampa fan. They probably know. Either way, my rankings of the best NHL goalies at this moment based on Vezina voting and playoff performance.

1. Tuukka Rask - Stats-wise, undeniably the best there is. Dominant season, dominant playoffs.
2. Carey Price - Surprising to me, but he's really emerged this season
3. Henrik Lundqvist - The King, or very close to it. Awesome playoffs after average season.
4. Semyon Varlamov - Another big emerger. His playoff stats suggest to me his team let him down.
5. Jonathan Quick - Injury year, I would expect to see him back in the top 3 next year.
6. Ben Bishop - Have to see him in the playoffs, but yet another big emerging goalie.
7. Steve Mason - Super promising but small playoff sample after a decent season.
8. Sergei Bobrovsky - A strong season but mediocre playoffs. Hope he gets back to Vezina form.
9. Kari Lehtonen - Had a strong season, but the worst playoff performance on this list.