you can't be serious last time mueller was in the nhl he only had 17 points
- 2Real

Was he healthy with Fla?

Was he healthy with Fla?
- coffee junkie

doesn't matter vinny had more goals than he had points total and vinny wasn't "healthy"

Brad Richards makes it to the HHOF before Vinny.
- Tomahawk

no way vinny is the better player

Indeed. So many of us are desperate to find that scorer that everyone else forgot about. Well, they didn't forget about him. He just wasn't all that good.

I think so many of us expected like 25-30 goals outta Vinny and maybe 55-60 total points for two or three years before he became a burden. Unfortunately, it didn't take that long.

But hey, he still has some use. In the end he potted 20. He can win face offs. He's an established vet.
- Hesh_

I think the jury is still out on what Lecavalier is going to be. I think the injury was the biggest factor in his poor overall season. I'm going to wait and see if he can bounce back before labeling him a burden.

How has Rinaldo regressed? Regressed from what?
- SuperSchennBros

I think more so then regressing, Rinaldo has just not grown as a player. He has stagnated as a player to this point.

0.82 ppg as a forward gets you into the HHOF now?

Phil Housley has a 0.82 ppg (1200+ points) as a dman and can't get a sniff.
- Tomahawk

He has a decent shot at scoring 500 goals and over 1,000 pts. And he's won a Stanley Cup.

no way vinny is the better player
- 2Real

BR wins on stats and career accomplishments.

Richards:
0.88 ppg,
Memorial Cup,
Stafford Smythe (Mem Cup MVP),
Stanley Cup,
Conn Smythe,
World Cup Gold,
1 NHL All-Star selection,
Lady Byng

Vinny:
0.82 ppg,
Stanley Cup (same),
World Cup Gold (same),
4 NHL All-Star Selections,
Maurice Richard

BR wins on stats and career accomplishments.

Richards:
0.88 ppg,
Memorial Cup,
Stafford Smythe (Mem Cup MVP),
Stanley Cup,
Conn Smythe,
World Cup Gold,
1 NHL All-Star selection,
Lady Byng

Vinny:
0.82 ppg,
Stanley Cup (same),
World Cup Gold (same),
4 NHL All-Star Selections,
Maurice Richard
- Tomahawk

oh wait so crap that happens outside of the NHL counts now?

oh wait so crap that happens outside of the NHL counts now?
- 2Real

Never.

Hockey is only the good ol' NHL.

Mueller healthy on a one year 1 M deal > Vinny with his contract

Edit: and I'm a Vinny supporter if there is such a thing
- coffee junkie

And what happens if his injury history flares up or he shows to be an AHL-best talent. What is your contingency plan for the rest of the year and/or the following year?

VL put up a decent amount of points for someone who was bounced around the lineup and suffered a substantial injury. If you don't want to waste money/playing time on Vinny, your BEST bet is to put him in a position to thrive this year, and hope that it parlays into increased trade value. They could always trade him at the TDL and allow Giroux/Schenn/Coots to be your 3 down the middle. This is a no-brainer for me. He will absolutely be valuable down the line. And who knows, maybe you have a young guy that can step into that open wing position when Schenn moves over.

VL at 2C + Schenn at 1W/2W > VL at 4C + Schenn at 3C. Schenn still has plenty of time and room to grow.

BR wins on stats and career accomplishments.

Richards:
0.88 ppg,
Memorial Cup,
Stafford Smythe (Mem Cup MVP),
Stanley Cup,
Conn Smythe,
World Cup Gold,
1 NHL All-Star selection,
Lady Byng

Vinny:
0.82 ppg,
Stanley Cup (same),
World Cup Gold (same),
4 NHL All-Star Selections,
Maurice Richard
- Tomahawk

If you want to pick and choose which stats you want to use, and ignore the rest!

Never.

Hockey is only the good ol' NHL.
- flyer_nutter

For the same price they got a prime contributor to a Cup win AND got said player to take a 35% pay-cut... Lombardi



Seriously, 12-mos ago, if somebody told you that Anton Stralman would end up in the same tax bracket as Niklas Kronwall and Dan Hamhuis, you'd probably have probably laughed them out of existence.

Not a bad player... but way overpaid.
- Tomahawk

12 months ago if someone told me Andrew MacDonald was going to get 6yr 30 million dollar deal I would have told them to " stay still, don't make any sudden movements while I call the men in the white jackets to take you away"

The money flying around was insane this year. At 4.5 Stralman was not a bad deal compared to what others were getting ( Orpick )

And what happens if his injury history flares up or he shows to be an AHL-best talent. What is your contingency plan for the rest of the year and/or the following year?

VL put up a decent amount of points for someone who was bounced around the lineup and suffered a substantial injury. If you don't want to waste money/playing time on Vinny, your BEST bet is to put him in a position to thrive this year, and hope that it parlays into increased trade value. They could always trade him at the TDL and allow Giroux/Schenn/Coots to be your 3 down the middle. This is a no-brainer for me. He will absolutely be valuable down the line. And who knows, maybe you have a young guy that can step into that open wing position when Schenn moves over.

VL at 2C + Schenn at 1W/2W > VL at 4C + Schenn at 3C. Schenn still has plenty of time and room to grow.
- steelydan

I agree 100%. Either play Lecavalier at Center on a scoring line, or at worst, at RW.

12 months ago if someone told me Andrew MacDonald was going to get 6yr 30 million dollar deal I would have told them to " stay still, don't make any sudden movements while I call the men in the white jackets to take you away"

The money flying around was insane this year. At 4.5 Stralman was not a bad deal compared to what others were getting ( Orpick )
- 3flyerkids

5M a year for a good player just isn't a big deal anymore. As the Cap goes up, and salaries continue to escalate. 5M for a quality defenseman is going to become a bargain.

I think the jury is still out on what Lecavalier is going to be. I think the injury was the biggest factor in his poor overall season. I'm going to wait and see if he can bounce back before labeling him a burden.
- MJL

Well, I didn't TOTALLY trash Vinny. The whole first paragraph was in reference to Mueller.

I still think there is something there, but its clear that at some point that contract will be a burden, and it will be quicker than we expected. I really hoped for 2-3 solid/very good years from him and the last 2 years was going to be us paying the piper. Now my left brow is raised when I think about what we MIGHT be stuck with.

5M a year for a good player just isn't a big deal anymore. As the Cap goes up, and salaries continue to escalate. 5M for a quality defenseman is going to become a bargain.
- MJL

I agree. It's just about par for the course. Slightly high, but not by much. Eventually it'll appear to be a pretty acceptable contract.

Pending he doesn't screw the pooch from here on out, of course.

Seriously?
- coffee junkie

I asked the question.

I asked the question.
- SuperSchennBros

Unequivocal proof: http://www.hockeybuzz.com...p?thread_id=118873&page=3

Two years ago Rinaldo was in the box a lot, but he drew as many penalties, so you could argue his case.

Last year he was in the box, but didn't draw nearly as many.

He's a loose cannon, and as much fun as it is to watch him plaster somebody, I want West hockey. If you can't contribute, I don't care if you hit like a truck.

I think more so then regressing, Rinaldo has just not grown as a player. He has stagnated as a player to this point.
- MJL

This isn't without a lack of trying. He was used on the PK. Ineffective but tried there, even though I feel players such as Brayden Schenn, Jake Voracek or Wayne Simmonds should be thrown into that mix.

I agree that Rinaldo has shown very little growth but he's also a player that brings grit and sandpaper, which seems like we have less of now with the departure of Hartnell. I would have liked to have added Steve Ott which left room to remove Rinaldo but the asking price was too high.

If the Flyers can remove Rinaldo but add a better player with grit to take over on the fouth line, I'm fine with the Flyers doing so. Looking over the forwards, I'd say out side of Rinaldo, Wayne Simmonds and maybe Brayden Schenn are our most gritty players. They're also top six skilled players. This isn't good.

Well, I didn't TOTALLY trash Vinny. The whole first paragraph was in reference to Mueller.

I still think there is something there, but its clear that at some point that contract will be a burden, and it will be quicker than we expected. I really hoped for 2-3 solid/very good years from him and the last 2 years was going to be us paying the piper. Now my left brow is raised when I think about what we MIGHT be stuck with.
- Hesh_

I don't feel that you trashed him at all. There is also a chance that Lecavalier rebounds, and continues to be a good player over the life of the contract. And as you said, they might be stuck with a contract that they want to move.

Gagne? Really? Jesus.

Gagne? Really? Jesus.
- Pixote Andolini

its insane


but seriously you cant tell me Foppa wouldn't be able to contribute on the 4th line...

Gagne? Really? Jesus.
- Pixote Andolini

Dimitriakos rulz