As someone who is old enough to have seen Orr play, all I can say is that he was, hands down, the best player I ever saw.
- BiggE

He may very well have been. I never actually had the pleasure of watching him closely like I did Lindros, Lemeiux, Gretzky, Forsberg.

He should never have been fighting McSorely.

So ill pose this question: Name another skill player who could fight like him.
- MBFlyerfan

Cam Neely
Mark Messier
Gordie Howe
Brendan Shanahan

Yeah. He held on and managaed to not get punched too much by McSorely. But aside from Stevens, name one legit heavyweight (or even Stevens-type) that he beat.
- jmatchett383

Derian Hatcher, Jeff Beukeboom to name two.

Cam Neely
Mark Messier
Gordie Howe
Brendan Shanahan
- jmatchett383

And how often did they fight true heavyweight goons?

Cam Neely
Mark Messier
Gordie Howe
Brendan Shanahan
- jmatchett383

Tim Kerr, Paul Holmgren

Derian Hatcher, Jeff Beukeboom to name two.
- MBFlyerfan

He beat Hatcher??? I remember a wrestling match (if you're talking when they fought like 10 seconds into a game). Buekeboom I don't remember them fighting, more wrestling in the Rangers net on the ice.

He beat Hatcher??? I remember a wrestling match (if you're talking when they fought like 10 seconds into a game). Buekeboom I don't remember them fighting, more wrestling in the Rangers net on the ice.
- jmatchett383

So what is your point? Because he didn't fight goons he wasn't a good fighter?

Yeah that makes sense.

IMO, people cant hold Lindros not winning a cup against him. Its a team sport and he did everything he could to win. If he had a cup..... Wouldnt everyone think differently of his career as a whole? Probably. But that isnt fair. He never had the supporting cast of a guy like Gretzky, Forsberg or Lemieux. Thats a fact

And how often did they fight true heavyweight goons?
- MBFlyerfan

Neely and Shanahan. Shanahan had a great back and forth with Basil McRae. They fought the heavyweights on other teams constantly. Messier didn't fight a lot, but would. I never saw Howe play, just stories.

If you look at their careers overall, yes. If you could have one game/series with a fully healthy player in their prime, I take Lindros.
- jmatchett383

I'd still take Forsberg. 88 could be neutralized -- see 1997.

Forsberg was always a beast when the game/series was on the line.

So what is your point? Because he didn't fight goons he wasn't a good fighter?

Yeah that makes sense.

- MBFlyerfan

Not at all. But if you want to proclaim him as a great fighter, he should have a few established W's against other good fighters.

Neely and Shanahan. Shanahan had a great back and forth with Basil McRae. They fought the heavyweights on other teams constantly. Messier didn't fight a lot, but would. I never saw Howe play, just stories.
- jmatchett383

Constantly?

ok

I'd still take Forsberg. 88 could be neutralized -- see 1997.

Forsberg was always a beast when the game/series was on the line.
- Tomahawk

It's a tough decision. I'll give you that. I'd be happy with either one.

Not at all. But if you want to proclaim him as a great fighter, he should have a few established W's against other good fighters.
- jmatchett383

What I said was he was the most dominating player because he could score, pass, hit and fight. Stop putting words in to my mouth to try to make a point.

He should never have been fighting McSorely.

So ill pose this question: Name another skill player who could fight like him.
- MBFlyerfan

Gordie Howe?

Ok I get it, no one thinks Lindros was a good fighter because he didn't fight goons. Fine, agree to disagree.

Constantly?

ok
- MBFlyerfan

Pretty much, yes.

What I said was he was the most dominating player because he could score, pass, hit and fight. Stop putting words in to my mouth to try to make a point.

- MBFlyerfan

I was actually talking to GOA88, re:

"Lindros could literally do it ALL. Skate, Shoot, Pass, Check, Fight, Faceoffs, Defense was above average as well."

Pretty sure Lindros beat some tough customers, including Chara.

I was actually talking to GOA88
- jmatchett383

Yet you quoted me, and stated "if you want to proclaim Lindros a great fighter........"

Forgive me if I made that mistake.

Pretty sure Lindros beat some tough customers, including Chara.
- GOA88

Again, he fought him, but I wouldn't say he won. His strategy seemed to be to hold onto the guy and try to throw him off balance and hit him as opposed to being willing to trade.

I was actually talking to GOA88, re:

"Lindros could literally do it ALL. Skate, Shoot, Pass, Check, Fight, Faceoffs, Defense was above average as well."
- jmatchett383

Ok, but he could do it all. Including fight.

I cant give you one player that could completely dominate/take over a game single handedly like Lindros could. Now could others score more points? Sure. But there was never anyone as dominate. (Orange glasses are off BTW)
- GOA88

i was definitely a little on the young side to try and look back and implement how i evaluate things now to what i saw back then, but yeah he was scary.

in today's game, i think both malkin and OV could come the closest, but the mental makeup just isnt there.

i honestly think the closest bet to total game domination with that physical imposition could be anze kopitar.

Yet you quoted me, and stated "if you want to proclaim Lindros a great fighter........"

Forgive me if I made that mistake.
- MBFlyerfan

My remarks were directed towards GOA88, and you decided to interject, which is all fine. But the point I was making was directed completely at his claim.

I was actually talking to GOA88, re:

"Lindros could literally do it ALL. Skate, Shoot, Pass, Check, Fight, Faceoffs, Defense was above average as well."
- jmatchett383

he could fight yes?? Never said he was the best at it.