Why does Couturier hold him back? I think there role is different. They create offense from the defense they play. You also have to look at D matchup. If Read plays on thetope lin he will see more top pairing d then the match up he sees when with Couturier. I think he can play up there when needed because he is versatile.
- J35Bacher

He doesn't. The usage holds them both back. Heavy D-zone starts vs top competition leads to decreased point totals. And despite that Read scored 20 goals and Couturier had only two fewer points than Schenn, who played a far more sheltered role and saw significantly more PP time than Couturier

agreed, i see him as top 6 much more than umberger or raffl
- -davies-

Absolutely. Raffl & Umberger might end up as top 6 guys, but only because Berube is a "pairs" guy, meaning he likes to pair two guys together & focus less on a trio

The other option is Vinny with Voracek, in terms of getting him a line ate with top end skill that can get him the puck
- Jsaquella

That could certainly be an option as well:

Schenn-G-Simmonds
Raffl-Vinnie-Voracek
Umberger-Couturier-Read

I might just like that even more than moving VL to Giroux's wing.

He doesn't. The usage holds them both back. Heavy D-zone starts vs top competition leads to decreased point totals. And despite that Read scored 20 goals and Couturier had only two fewer points than Schenn, who played a far more sheltered role and saw significantly more PP time than Couturier
- Jsaquella

I agree. If Couturier gets more PP time and they don't play with an anchor like Downie, they should offer plenty of production without skipping a beat defensively.

They can, the trouble is making the all lines better at 5 on 5. Couturier & Read do a good job, given the match ups they face and situations they're used in. Giroux and Voracek are also good 5 on 5. The trouble is the 10-40-17 line and the most common 4th line last year were pretty bad at 5 on 5.

To address the biggest team weakness, which is 5 on 5 play, they might need to shuffle things around.
- Jsaquella

I think the 4th line could be better this year if guys like Laughton, Bellemore, Raffl, Alderson and even akeson are on it. I am still confient Vinny is moved before the season. If he is moved i think the Lineup a little easier to put together.

Schenn needs another year of evaluation at 2nd line center IMO. A 22 yo who was average there isnt the worst thing. However he does need to take a bigger step this year and hit the 50-55 pt mark.

I say play vinny at 4C playing around 12-15 mins with PP time. I think the d burden on coots will be heavy once again this year, I don't see a way around that. But I'm also for keeping Laughton in Allentown for the majority of the year at least

Umberger-giroux-voracek
Raffl-schenn-simmonds
Akeson-couturier-read
Ryan carter-vinny-Bellemare

Sign Ryan carter a solid 4th line option
- Just5

I don't see Berube playing a 4th line 12-15 minutes a game, even with Lecavalier on that line. I think playing him of a 4th line with 4th line players is a waste, and a really bad idea. Put the player in a position to succeed, and to possibly increase his future trade value if he's going to be on the team.

Why does Couturier hold him back? I think there role is different. They create offense from the defense they play. You also have to look at D matchup. If Read plays on thetope lin he will see more top pairing d then the match up he sees when with Couturier. I think he can play up there when needed because he is versatile.
- J35Bacher

I say that because Couts has'nt really hit his stride offensively at all. If someone is going to say its because of his role.... Look at Toews and Bergeron. They are always against the top line of the other team. Read could benefit offensively with a more offensively skilled center. Who knows... maybe Couts breaks out this season. He did look really good at times in the offensive zone. He really improved his strength and puck possesion along the boards. He is really underappreciated throughout the league. Kid is going to be a really solid player. Hell is already is one of the best defensively.

For how much longer? My problem with the VL contract is the combination of the cap hit and length of contract (4 more years), with the obligatory NMC/NTC thing being the extra bit of relish on the poop sandwich.
- Doc_Sarcasm

I don't see why he can't remain a solid offensive player through the length of the contract. Regardless, I don't see him remaining a Flyer for the length of the contract.

Vinny is going nowhere. Maybe at the deadline next season if a team is desperate and making a cup run.
- GOA88

I was thinking about that possibility as well. But if teams are interested in him at the deadline it probably means he is having a decent season. If he is playing well and we are bubble team at the deadline, would the Flyers trade him or keep him to push for the playoffs? If we are completely out of it by the deadline, then I would assume they would try to move him.

The direction his point totals have been heading since 06/07 is not promising.
- Doc_Sarcasm

His numbers in the 12/13 lockout shortened season prorated to 67 points over a full 82 game season.

I think the 4th line could be better this year if guys like Laughton, Bellemore, Raffl, Alderson and even akeson are on it. I am still confient Vinny is moved before the season. If he is moved i think the Lineup a little easier to put together.
- J35Bacher

I am starting to get the feeling he won't be moved and if he isn't he must have a chance to produce and not be placed on 4th line.

He doesn't. The usage holds them both back. Heavy D-zone starts vs top competition leads to decreased point totals. And despite that Read scored 20 goals and Couturier had only two fewer points than Schenn, who played a far more sheltered role and saw significantly more PP time than Couturier
- Jsaquella

I guess I don't see pushing a guy into another role when the one he does he does it well and it helps the team. It's not like Reaad is a 20 year old who has untapped potential. I think he is what he is. Solid two way wing with speed and solid defensivley who can pop in 20 goals. Kills penalties and can play PP if needed.

I was thinking about that possibility as well. But if teams are interested in him at the deadline it probably means he is having a decent season. If he is playing well and we are bubble team at the deadline, would the Flyers trade him or keep him to push for the playoffs? If we are completely out of it by the deadline, then I would assume they would try to move him.
- High_and_wide

Flyers are going to the playoffs with or without Vinny. Dont worry about that. I actually think we will push for the division title. The kids are a year older/wiser and Berube is getting them to play disciplined. Penguins and Rangers have also regressed in talent this off-season while the Flyers are the same for the most part.

His numbers in the 12/13 lockout shortened season prorated to 67 points over a full 82 game season.
- MJL

Exactly. Its still there. People have to remember players are not robots and he went thru alot this past season. He should feel a little more comfortable this coming season.

I say that because Couts has'nt really hit his stride offensively at all. If someone is going to say its because of his role.... Look at Toews and Bergeron. They are always against the top line of the other team. Read could benefit offensively with a more offensively skilled center. Who knows... maybe Couts breaks out this season. He did look really good at times in the offensive zone. He really improved his strength and puck possesion along the boards. He is really underappreciated throughout the league. Kid is going to be a really solid player. Hell is already is one of the best defensively.
- GOA88

Toews started in the defensive zone 21.1% of the time, versus 36.3% of the time for Couturier.

I say that because Couts has'nt really hit his stride offensively at all. If someone is going to say its because of his role.... Look at Toews and Bergeron. They are always against the top line of the other team. Read could benefit offensively with a more offensively skilled center. Who knows... maybe Couts breaks out this season. He did look really good at times in the offensive zone. He really improved his strength and puck possesion along the boards. He is really underappreciated throughout the league. Kid is going to be a really solid player. Hell is already is one of the best defensively.
- GOA88

Toews and Bergeron also get PP minutes too. Yes they do put up points but those two teams also have a good balance through the lineup. Toews can play with Kane, Sharp, Hossa, Bickell, Saad and so on. Bergeron the same. Instead of taking Read from Couturier why not try and get them a winger.

I say that because Couts has'nt really hit his stride offensively at all. If someone is going to say its because of his role.... Look at Toews and Bergeron. They are always against the top line of the other team. Read could benefit offensively with a more offensively skilled center. Who knows... maybe Couts breaks out this season. He did look really good at times in the offensive zone. He really improved his strength and puck possesion along the boards. He is really underappreciated throughout the league. Kid is going to be a really solid player. Hell is already is one of the best defensively.
- GOA88

Toews does get used in as defensive a role as Couturier. He starts about 27% of his shifts in the D-zone, Couturier is near 40% D-zone starts, over the last three seasons Bergeron has similar zone starts, but is also utilized a lot more on the PP and in scoring situations.

Also comparing a 21 year old kid with Toews and Bergeron is a bit unfair, given that they are stars who have both been in the league longer than Couturier.

If Couturier hasn't hit his offensive stride at all, where's the complaint about Schenn holding Simmonds back? Schenn plays a pretty sheltered role, not many D-zone starts, gets more PP time and against far easier competition than Couturier...and he had just two more points

I guess I don't see pushing a guy into another role when the one he does he does it well and it helps the team. It's not like Reaad is a 20 year old who has untapped potential. I think he is what he is. Solid two way wing with speed and solid defensivley who can pop in 20 goals. Kills penalties and can play PP if needed.
- J35Bacher

If he can help the team more in a bigger role, why keep him in a smaller one?

Toews does get used in as defensive a role as Couturier. He starts about 27% of his shifts in the D-zone, Couturier is near 40% D-zone starts. Bergeron has similar zone starts, but is also utilized a lot more on the PP and in scoring situations.

Also comparing a 21 year old kid with Toews and Bergeron is a bit unfair, given that they are stars who have both been in the league longer than Couturier.

If Couturier hasn't hit his offensive stride at all, where's the complaint about Schenn holding Simmonds back? Schenn plays a pretty sheltered role, not many D-zone starts, gets more PP time and against far easier competition than Couturier...and he had just two more points
- Jsaquella

Dont get me started on Schenn. I have been preaching that we need to deal him now while he still has trade value. I honestly cant see him being any better than maybe a 50-55 point player. That isnt good enough for a 2nd line center.

If he can help the team more in a bigger role, why keep him in a smaller one?
- Jsaquella

I gess then I don't see him helping much more on the top line then where he does now. Propular are not but i don't see a top line guy. If Giroux and Voracek are staying together you need someone a little more physicall and shooter first I think.

Dont get me started on Schenn. I have been preaching that we need to deal him now while he still has trade value. I honestly cant see him being any better than maybe a 50-55 point player. That isnt good enough for a 2nd line center.
- GOA88

First i wouldn't say that Schenn or Vinny centered the 2nd line. If anything that is a third line. Our top 6 consist of 4 main players(giroux, Voracek, Read, Coutureir) and whatever winger is placed on those lines. Next season the tope 6 will probabbe

Schenn - Giroux - Voracek
- Couturier - Read

Dont get me started on Schenn. I have been preaching that we need to deal him now while he still has trade value. I honestly cant see him being any better than maybe a 50-55 point player. That isnt good enough for a 2nd line center.
- GOA88

Do yourself a favor and look around the NHL at full season stats for teams. You'll find that 50-55 point totals for a 2nd line center is a good total. For instance, last season, there were 27 Centers in the entire League who scored 55 or more points. There are 30 teams in the League.

Rags re-sign Cryder

Rags re-sign Cryder
- aightwebang17

length, cash?

length, cash?
- BiggE

2 years, $2.475M per