Yup... hey, if it makes you feel better at night, fondly remembering the last... championship yins guys had, go ahead and call people who ACTUALLY care about their pride as fans bandwagoners. Pittsburghers are far to proud to support a team that the owners dont support. its not about wins and losses, its about reciprocity. if the early 2000's pens owners had put money into the team and they lost then the arena would have been filled. they didn't and the fans had enough self-esteem to not show up. you leafs fans... pathetic. show the owners some empty seats next year and see how quickly the team turns around. leafs fans dont have the F'in balls
- ChrisMS

yeah sorry dude, We have to pay at least 200 bucks for a pair of tickets, so not gonna boycott the games. what do cheap seats in pitt go for? 25 bucks a pop?

The leafs probably have 10x the fan base pittsburgh has, so there are never gonna be empty seats regardless of how they perform on the ice. don't mistake this for not caring/not having the balls to do something. I dont really mind it too much, because i will never have to worry about the NHL/former star players bailing the team out of bankruptcy

I think you are one of the very few who would take Fleury and his bloated salary over Bernier. The .923Sv% bernie got would have been a career high for MAF. I think MAF is a decent goalie, but like the blogger said average.
- GardinerExpress

do i think bernier is a bad goalie? No. Do I think Bernier has the chance to be a very good goalie? sure.

but the fact of the matter is that you have a guy who has never played in the playoffs besides a game in 2012 that i think Quick got pulled from.

MAF is overpaid now. he was signed after taking his team to two cups and winning one of them. at the time was 5 million overpayment? no.

but the problem is that since he hasnt lived up to that 5 million. in 2010 and 2011, he didnt struggle but he didnt perform at the level he was needed to perform at. in 2012, he struggled but who on that team didnt struggle? in 2013, he posted a shutout and lost his job to vokoun because the penguins were getting badly outplayed by the islanders. had the team woken up like they did with vokoun, MAF would have been fine.

like i said earlier... ill take the 6 million for MAF/Griess over the 5.3 or whatever for Reimer/Bernier. Ill take the guy who i know can win a cup versus either guy who might be able to lead their team to a cup.

ryan likes to say that you dont need a top notch goalie to win you the cup... you only need a hot average goalie... that point i dont agree with. some do. it's that simple.

thats just the suits having business meetings near the concessions. The leafs sell out every game, they will never be bankrupt
- GardinerExpress

i agree and its a shame. consol energy center has become much more corporate with much more expensive tickets.

do i think bernier is a bad goalie? No. Do I think Bernier has the chance to be a very good goalie? sure.

but the fact of the matter is that you have a guy who has never played in the playoffs besides a game in 2012 that i think Quick got pulled from.

MAF is overpaid now. he was signed after taking his team to two cups and winning one of them. at the time was 5 million overpayment? no.

but the problem is that since he hasnt lived up to that 5 million. in 2010 and 2011, he didnt struggle but he didnt perform at the level he was needed to perform at. in 2012, he struggled but who on that team didnt struggle? in 2013, he posted a shutout and lost his job to vokoun because the penguins were getting badly outplayed by the islanders. had the team woken up like they did with vokoun, MAF would have been fine.

like i said earlier... ill take the 6 million for MAF/Griess over the 5.3 or whatever for Reimer/Bernier. Ill take the guy who i know can win a cup versus either guy who might be able to lead their team to a cup.

ryan likes to say that you dont need a top notch goalie to win you the cup... you only need a hot average goalie... that point i dont agree with. some do. it's that simple.
- SuperHenderson13

I think I speak for 90 percent of hockey fans. I would take Bernier over Fleury in the playoffs. Any day. Bernier is the better goalie. And Fleury is crap in the playoffs.you really need I put your Pittsburgh pride out of this one. Sure Fleury won a cup. His team was the reason he won the cup.

That's like saying you would take a Stoll over Iginla(in his prime). Still has won a cup. Iginla hasn't but has proved he is better.

I think I speak for 90 percent of hockey fans. I would take Bernier over Fleury in the playoffs. Any day. Bernier is the better goalie. And Fleury is crap in the playoffs.
- JVR_42_PK81

So wait a minute, you're taking the guy who has won nothing before, never done anything in the playoffs... never led his team anywhere besides a top 10 pick... over the guy who led his team to 2 finals, 1 cup win, a team canada pick but who suffered some poor luck and poor teams in front of him.

maybe thats why you havent won since 1967.

So wait a minute, you're taking the guy who has won nothing before, never done anything in the playoffs... never led his team anywhere besides a top 10 pick... over the guy who led his team to 2 finals, 1 cup win, a team canada pick but who suffered some poor luck and poor teams in front of him.

maybe thats why you havent won since 1967.
- SuperHenderson13

You keep saying Fleury led the pens to a cup! He didn't. Pittsburgh's lineup led Fleury to a cup! Get that through your head. I would take the better, younger goalie over an average goalie that sucks in the playoffs.

That's like saying you would take a Stoll over Iginla(in his prime). Still has won a cup. Iginla hasn't but has proved he is better.
- JVR_42_PK81

I think the goalie has a bigger role in a cup win than the 3rd line center.

do i think bernier is a bad goalie? No. Do I think Bernier has the chance to be a very good goalie? sure.

but the fact of the matter is that you have a guy who has never played in the playoffs besides a game in 2012 that i think Quick got pulled from.

MAF is overpaid now. he was signed after taking his team to two cups and winning one of them. at the time was 5 million overpayment? no.

but the problem is that since he hasnt lived up to that 5 million. in 2010 and 2011, he didnt struggle but he didnt perform at the level he was needed to perform at. in 2012, he struggled but who on that team didnt struggle? in 2013, he posted a shutout and lost his job to vokoun because the penguins were getting badly outplayed by the islanders. had the team woken up like they did with vokoun, MAF would have been fine.

like i said earlier... ill take the 6 million for MAF/Griess over the 5.3 or whatever for Reimer/Bernier. Ill take the guy who i know can win a cup versus either guy who might be able to lead their team to a cup.

ryan likes to say that you dont need a top notch goalie to win you the cup... you only need a hot average goalie... that point i dont agree with. some do. it's that simple.
- SuperHenderson13

The Chicago Blackhawks and Antti Niemi/Corey Crawford would like to submit their rebuttal.

With that out of the way, I'm not sure that 90% of hockey fans would take Bernier over Fleury. 90% Leafs fans, sure, I'll give you that, but not 90% of hockey fans in general.

We keep talking about who's proven something, who hasn't proven something, who proved something a while ago but hasn't proven it recently and needs to prove it again. The fact of the matter is Bernier hasn't proven ass, and Reimer sure as poop hasn't proven ass. If anything, Reimer has proven that he's not good. So right now, the best case scenario that you're batting it right now is that Fleury and Bernier are about equal gambles at this stage in their respective careers. If you want to take Bernier because he's cheaper, that's an extremely valid argument and its hard to come up with a response. For anything beyond that, come back and talk to us when Bernier has a cup run.

EDIT: Also, apples and oranges with the Stoll Iginla comparison. Forwards are judged on overall production numbers, regardless of when or how clutch those numbers come. Goalies are judged literally on their ability to make that one save during the playoffs and deliver a cup.

I think the goalie has a bigger role in a cup win than the 3rd line center.


- SuperHenderson13

Fleury sucks in the playoffs. I don't get why you keep saying led.

You keep saying Fleury led the pens to a cup! He didn't. Pittsburgh's lineup led Fleury to a cup! Get that through your head. I would take the better, younger goalie over an average goalie that sucks in the playoffs.
- JVR_42_PK81

i forgot sidney crosby made the big save on alex ovechkin in game 7 in washington.
i forgot that evegeni malkin made the save against Lidstrom in game 7 against the wings in the last 6 seconds.

should i keep going or can we agree on how stupid you sound right now?

i forgot sidney crosby made the big save on alex ovechkin in game 7 in washington.
i forgot that evegeni malkin made the save against Lidstrom in game 7 against the wings in the last 6 seconds.

should i keep going or can we agree on how stupid you sound right now?
- SuperHenderson13

Relax. He's stat geeking and didn't actually watch the games. Stat nazis are incapable of conceding their points because unless you have the stat for Fleury's sub 2.00 save % in the '09 playoffs, he's not going to relent the fact that Flower, Malkin, and Talbot (in that order) were the biggest reasons why the Pens won the cup that year. Its not worth the breath.

Bernier career .918 save percentage
Fleury career .910 save percentage

Bernier>Fleury

Bernier career GAA 2.51
Fleury career GAA 2.62

Bernier>Fleury

Bernier is a calm positional goaltender.
Fleury is a floppy goalie. (Surly more fun to watch but not the ideal playing style for a goalie)

Bernier>Fleury

Bernier 26
Fleury 29
Bernier> Fleury

Sure Fleury has playoff experience but he has only been good once in the playoffs. He struggles to reach .900 save percentage most years in the playoffs. That's not good.

Relax. He's stat geeking and didn't actually watch the games. Stat nazis are incapable of conceding their points because unless you have the stat for Fleury's sub 2.00 save % in the '09 playoffs, he's not going to relent the fact that Flower, Malkin, and Talbot (in that order) were the biggest reasons why the Pens won the cup that year. Its not worth the breath.
- Victoro311

yea youre right. thats why i cant stand these advanced stats disciples.

Relax. He's stat geeking and didn't actually watch the games. Stat nazis are incapable of conceding their points because unless you have the stat for Fleury's sub 2.00 save % in the '09 playoffs, he's not going to relent the fact that Flower, Malkin, and Talbot (in that order) were the biggest reasons why the Pens won the cup that year. Its not worth the breath.
- Victoro311

Sorry but save percentage is the most useful thing to review goalies. If your save percentage is higher you stop more pucks plain and simple.

i forgot sidney crosby made the big save on alex ovechkin in game 7 in washington.
i forgot that evegeni malkin made the save against Lidstrom in game 7 against the wings in the last 6 seconds.

should i keep going or can we agree on how stupid you sound right now?
- SuperHenderson13

Thanks for pointing out 2 shots out of like 500.

Bernier career .918 save percentage
Fleury career .910 save percentage

Bernier>Fleury

Bernier career GAA 2.51
Fleury career GAA 2.62

Bernier>Fleury

Bernier is a calm positional goaltender.
Fleury is a floppy goalie. (Surly more fun to watch but not the ideal playing style for a goalie)

Bernier>Fleury

Bernier 26
Fleury 29
Bernier> Fleury

Sure Fleury has playoff experience but he has only been good once in the playoffs. He struggles to reach .900 save percentage most years in the playoffs. That's not good.
- JVR_42_PK81

Bernier carrier goals against % as a starting goalie: 2.68.

Fleury>Bernier

Really? That's what you're resorting to right now? Relying on deceptive back up numbers to make your point? Fine. Lets throw Cam Talbot and Thomas Greiss into the conversation for GOAT.

Bernier career .918 save percentage
Fleury career .910 save percentage

Bernier>Fleury

Bernier career GAA 2.51
Fleury career GAA 2.62

Bernier>Fleury

Bernier is a calm positional goaltender.
Fleury is a floppy goalie. (Surly more fun to watch but not the ideal playing style for a goalie)

Bernier>Fleury

Bernier 26
Fleury 29
Bernier> Fleury

Sure Fleury has playoff experience but he has only been good once in the playoffs. He struggles to reach .900 save percentage most years in the playoffs. That's not good.
- JVR_42_PK81

this past year was the first year bernier was a number 1 goalie and youre already looking at stats like that...

see, ill play this game too.

Cup Wins
MAF 1
Bernier 0

Cup Appearances
MAF 2
Bernier 0

Playoff Games Played
MAF 93
Bernier 1/2

Olympic Teams Made
MAF 1
Bernier 0

Regular Season Career Wins
MAF 249
Bernier 55

Playoff Career Wins
MAF 52
Bernier 0

so... MAF > Bernier

see... i can come up with completely unfair comparisons and stats also.

Bernier carrier goals against % as a starting goalie: 2.68.

Fleury>Bernier

Really. That's what you're resorting to right now? Relying on deceptive back up numbers to make your point? Fine. Lets throw Cam Talbot and Thomas Greiss into the conversation for GOAT.
- Victoro311

Who gives a poop when he played. He still played those games.

Thanks for pointing out 2 shots out of like 500.
- JVR_42_PK81

here comes the point i was trying to make... and there it goes right over your head.

this past year was the first year bernier was a number 1 goalie and youre already looking at stats like that...

see, ill play this game too.

Cup Wins
MAF 1
Bernier 0

Cup Appearances
MAF 2
Bernier 0

Playoff Games Played
MAF 93
Bernier 1/2

Olympic Teams Made
MAF 1
Bernier 0

Regular Season Career Wins
MAF 249
Bernier 55

Playoff Career Wins
MAF 52
Bernier 0

so... MAF > Bernier

see... i can come up with completely unfair comparisons and stats also.
- SuperHenderson13

those are all team stats. The reason he won a cup was because he was on Pittsburgh you goof.

here comes the point i was trying to make... and there it goes right over your head.
- SuperHenderson13

And you miss my point what about his .900 save percentage for those 500 shots. It's like arguing with an idiot.

those are all team stats. The reason he won a cup was because he was on Pittsburgh you goof.
- JVR_42_PK81

buddy i really hate to do this to you... but its a team sport that we are talking about.

you dont think GAA or save % isnt based on team play also?

come on man, use your head.

buddy i really hate to do this to you... but its a team sport that we are talking about.

you dont think GAA or save % isnt based on team play also?

come on man, use your head.
- SuperHenderson13

If you think a goalies save percentage is a team stat you should use your head. And what I am fricken saying is that fleury has been blessed to play on a stacked team thus is why he has had the wins. Save percentage is the best way to review a goalie.

If you think a goalies save percentage is a team stat you should use your head. And what I am fricken saying is that fleury has been blessed to play on a stacked team thus is why he has had the wins. Save percentage is the best way to review a goalie.
- JVR_42_PK81

MAF has played on a very good offensive team... again i hate to do this to you, but he relies on his defense... where believe it or not, it hasnt been that good. especially in 2012.

the best way to measure a goalie is a completely subjective.

MAF has played on a very good offensive team... again i hate to do this to you, but he relies on his defense... where believe it or not, it hasnt been that good. especially in 2012.

the best way to measure a goalie is a completely subjective.
- SuperHenderson13

Yes the offensive team has won him the cups and the wins. And the leafs defense was horrid this year. Bernier still got .923 save percentage so don't use that stupid excuse.