In the old days, the Devils picked and grew players for the system and with certain star players added or grown it worked well. Lamoriello was a frugal genius who got away with murder in certain league dealings as well

I am wondering if the method here is similar at least in the sense the UFA signee players like Bellemare and Raffl are presumably/proved to be solid 2 way players, with a little bit of punch and good basic/skating skills and defensively responsible.

Could we be heading towards a system with players selected for it rather than the vague "Best Player Available" drafting and UFA signining ?

I think the Flyers in the past have played salaries rather than actual performance in some instances, though with time its become muddy
- Steelmanpa

Good points
Certainly under Holmgren, I think they had a tendency to simply try and sign the best players on the market, rather than the ones who may best fit their system (Vinnie anyone?). It looks like that is not going to happen under Hextall and I'm very happy about that.

I agree with you 100 percent. I know Hartnell can take dumb penalties but he did have that " grit" as part of his game. I don't want see Simmonds having to fight more, or feel he has to bring more sandpaper to his current game. Rinaldo is hit and miss but not a top 3 line player. It will be interesting to see what kind of team they will be. I would definitely keep Rosehill on the roster. A guy like Steve Ott would have been a nice pick up to provide that trash talk and play some quality minutes
- 3flyerkids

I agree completely. We probably need an enforcer now more then ever to keep a guy like Simmonds from taking incidents into his own hands. This team is missing a lot of grit outside of Simmonds, Rinaldo and Rosehill.

I agree completely. We probably need an enforcer now more then ever to keep a guy like Simmonds from taking incidents into his own hands. This team is missing a lot of grit outside of Simmonds, Rinaldo and Rosehill.
- SuperSchennBros

I disagree, Detroit has finished 29th or 30th in fighting majors for nearly each of the last 20 seasons and last time I checked, they were pretty damn successful.

Heck even when they last carried enforcers, it was guys like Kocur and Probert who had enough talent to both take a regular shift and contribute. If a fight is necessary, between Simmonds, Luke Schenn, and Grossmann they will be fine. However, I think the league is quietly doing whatever they can to remove fighting from the game, so I really think it is quickly becoming a moot point.

I think they prefer him at C, I think he can play either and be effective, if given the right linemates. I don't think he was as effective as he could be with Simmonds, I'd rather see him with Voracek or Giroux, be it as a C or a LW
- Jsaquella

I don't see anyway around Schenn becoming a full time LW in the long run. To me it doesn't matter if Lecavalier is here or not because next in line is Scott Laughton. I agree with the Flyers web site, Laughton shouldn't play on the fourth line. Laughton won't play wing. You want Laughton in the top nine. If you put Laughton in the top nine at center with Giroux and Couturier down the middle, guess who gets pushed to the side? To me there is no doubt in my mind.

I agree with you 100 percent. I know Hartnell can take dumb penalties but he did have that " grit" as part of his game. I don't want see Simmonds having to fight more, or feel he has to bring more sandpaper to his current game. Rinaldo is hit and miss but not a top 3 line player. It will be interesting to see what kind of team they will be. I would definitely keep Rosehill on the roster. A guy like Steve Ott would have been a nice pick up to provide that trash talk and play some quality minutes
- 3flyerkids

Like...zoinks...

I agree completely. We probably need an enforcer now more then ever to keep a guy like Simmonds from taking incidents into his own hands. This team is missing a lot of grit outside of Simmonds, Rinaldo and Rosehill.
- SuperSchennBros

Like....zoinks

Like....zoinks
- Giroux_Is_God

Scooby Doo references are always appreciated!!

I disagree, Detroit has finished 29th or 30th in fighting majors for nearly each of the last 20 seasons and last time I checked, they were pretty damn successful.

Heck even when they last carried enforcers, it was guys like Kocur and Probert who had enough talent to both take a regular shift and contribute. If a fight is necessary, between Simmonds, Luke Schenn, and Grossmann they will be fine. However, I think the league is quietly doing whatever they can to remove fighting from the game, so I really think it is quickly becoming a moot point.
- BiggE

I live in Detroit. Detroit is currently trying to get tougher. Fans as well as management is unhappy with their lack of toughness. Detroit does see some value in tough guys by signing Aaron Downey and Jordan Tootoo. Did both players workout? No but it's not stopping them from trying to change this trend.

I don't see anyway around Schenn becoming a full time LW in the long run. To me it doesn't matter if Lecavalier is here or not because next in line is Scott Laughton. I agree with the Flyers web site, Laughton shouldn't play on the fourth line. Laughton won't play wing. You want Laughton in the top nine. If you put Laughton in the top nine at center with Giroux and Couturier down the middle, guess who gets pushed to the side? To me there is no doubt in my mind.
- SuperSchennBros

Laughton could be pushed to a wing, too. Lecavalier might end up at RW, too.

I think Schenn can be effective at either, but whatever they do has to be predicated on what's best for the team. If Schenn is more effective at C than Lecavalier and Laughton, then he should be at xenter. They still may need to move somebody to address the defense

I live in Detroit. Detroit is currently trying to get tougher. Fans as well as management is unhappy with their lack of toughness. Detroit does see some value in tough guys by signing Aaron Downey and Jordan Tootoo. Did both players workout? No but it's not stopping them from trying to change this trend.
- SuperSchennBros

Sure, now that they aren't a contender fans are getting unhappy. However, I don't remember hearing a lot of complaints about them not fighting enough back in 2007-2010.

IMO, I'd rather have a player who hits hard and clean, goes into the corners and goes to the front of the net and works his tail off, than a one dimensional enforcer like Rosehill.

Laughton could be pushed to a wing, too. Lecavalier might end up at RW, too.

I think Schenn can be effective at either, but whatever they do has to be predicated on what's best for the team. If Schenn is more effective at C than Lecavalier and Laughton, then he should be at xenter. They still may need to move somebody to address the defense
- Jsaquella

They need to decide- like you said: based on what's best for the team- but most importantly they need to KEEP HIM THERE ffs

Laughton could be pushed to a wing, too. Lecavalier might end up at RW, too.

I think Schenn can be effective at either, but whatever they do has to be predicated on what's best for the team. If Schenn is more effective at C than Lecavalier and Laughton, then he should be at xenter. They still may need to move somebody to address the defense
- Jsaquella

Agreed

I am very open to them, at least during preseason, trying VL on Giroux's right wing.

They need to decide- like you said: based on what's best for the team- but most importantly they need to KEEP HIM THERE ffs
- Giroux_Is_God

Sure, now that they aren't a contender fans are getting unhappy. However, I don't remember hearing a lot of complaints about them not fighting enough back in 2007-2010.

IMO, I'd rather have a player who hits hard and clean, goes into the corners and goes to the front of the net and works his tail off, than a one dimensional enforcer like Rosehill.
- BiggE

Enforcers, relative to the rest of the NHL, suck at the game of hockey. Why would want someone whose best attribute is socking guys in the face, rather than passing/skating/shooting etc...

Enforcers, relative to the rest of the NHL, suck at the game of hockey. Why would want someone whose best attribute is socking guys in the face, rather than passing/skating/shooting etc...
- Giroux_Is_God

Exactly

I agree completely. We probably need an enforcer now more then ever to keep a guy like Simmonds from taking incidents into his own hands. This team is missing a lot of grit outside of Simmonds, Rinaldo and Rosehill.
- SuperSchennBros

I remember when Hitch was the coach here, he used to talk about developing "team toughness".....the point being that a designated fighter was not really required.

I always liked that and would prefer the Flyers not employ a one dimensional puncher.

Sure, now that they aren't a contender fans are getting unhappy. However, I don't remember hearing a lot of complaints about them not fighting enough back in 2007-2010.

IMO, I'd rather have a player who hits hard and clean, goes into the corners and goes to the front of the net and works his tail off, than a one dimensional enforcer like Rosehill.
- BiggE

We traded him for RJ Umberger.

I remember when Hitch was the coach here, he used to talk about developing "team toughness".....the point being that a designated fighter was not really required.

I always liked that and would prefer the Flyers not employ a one dimensional puncher.
- johndewar

We traded him for RJ Umberger.
- jmatchett383

Today's hartnell's b'day, too. Did everyone wish him happys on twitter?

To me, toughness in hockey is measured by going all out, every second of every shift and doing the little, often unappreciated, things it takes to win like working hard in the corners, blocking shots, hustling back to retrieve a puck in you end even though you know you are going to get hit and so on.

It has nothing to do with fighting or taking idiotic penalties. As far as I'm concerned the toughest player on the Flyers is Kimmo Timonen. He willingly puts his undersized and aging body in danger for the betterment of the team. He will block shots, take a hit to make a play, and play through injuries that would put most players in the press box. That folks, is a warrior.

Sure, now that they aren't a contender fans are getting unhappy. However, I don't remember hearing a lot of complaints about them not fighting enough back in 2007-2010.

IMO, I'd rather have a player who hits hard and clean, goes into the corners and goes to the front of the net and works his tail off, than a one dimensional enforcer like Rosehill.
- BiggE

During this time they also had Darren McCarty, Chris Draper and Kirk Maltby. Maybe not known as Fighters themselves but they were scrappy players. Especially Darren McCarty will they let go to Calgary but then also brought back. What happened in 2007 to 2010 was then but 2014 is now. Detroit wants to become a tougher team. The Boston Bruins are probably the more balanced teams in the league and they're tough. I know they let Shawn Thornton walk but, Shawn Thornton is an enforcer no matter how you look at him.

We traded him for RJ Umberger.
- jmatchett383

I'd be more upset if that player didn't also have a tendency to fall down and/or take really stupid penalties at the worst times.

Agreed

I am very open to them, at least during preseason, trying VL on Giroux's right wing.
- BiggE

It might be the best spot for him. I know Berube likes Giroux with Voracek, and I think we all do. I look at it in terms of icing as many good lines as possible, so they can avoid the kind of usage that Couturier & Read saw last year.

I remember when Hitch was the coach here, he used to talk about developing "team toughness".....the point being that a designated fighter was not really required.

I always liked that and would prefer the Flyers not employ a one dimensional puncher.
- johndewar

I'm fine with this but we traded away Hartnell, while allowing Downie and Hall to walk. The team is what it is now, which is not as tough as they were last season.

During this time they also had Darren McCarty, Chris Draper and Kirk Maltby. Maybe not known as Fighters themselves but they were scrappy players. Especially Darren McCarty will they let go to Calgary but then also brought back. What happened in 2007 to 2010 was then but 2014 is now. Detroit wants to become a tougher team. The Boston Bruins are probably the more balanced teams in the league and they're tough. I know they let Shawn Thornton walk but, Shawn Thornton is an enforcer no matter how you look at him.
- SuperSchennBros

Maltby, Draper and McCarty were all solid to good players, they were not one dimensional enforcers by any stretch of the imagination, and even Thornton is a much more complete player than Rosehill.