So, because I'm fairly certain not too many folks have any interest in arguing about advanced stats in late July, I was wondering what you guys thought about this:

If you were picking today, with the majority of offseason moves complete, who do you like in each conference to win those, and who do you like for the Stanley Cup?

Just your thoughts; I'm just curious.
- AllInForFlyers

Divisions Leaders: Tampa, Pitt, Chicago, Anaheim

Conference Winners: Anaheim and Boston

Cup: Anaheim

Two Tampas so far; interesting. You do have to respect their talent. I wonder, though: Do you guys feel comfortable with their depth at center, behind Stamkos?

I wonder about Val Filppula and Tyler Johnson when it gets to the second, third round, though I acknowledge they have a lot of things going for them and that Stralman really helps balance out their defense.

That's where I am with this league today -- it's like some of these guys think that they're never going to get fired if they never make deals.

Everything you do in professional sports is fraught with risk. But doing nothing, in some cases, is just as bad as making a move that doesn't work out.
- AllInForFlyers

I guess the GMs think they can hold onto their jobs a little longer. Cheveldayoff is the poster boy for doing nothing. MacTavish is right up their too. Maloney in Phoenix is another one. Some of theses guys use their budget constraints as an excuse but that is bogus. The modern NHL is a young mans game. By the time most players hit free agency age, they will have started to decline. Only defensemen remain at the top into their 30's but even then a long bridge contract like McDonagh or OEL got can keep costs down during their prime years.

That brings me to the worst GM in the league: David Poile. This guy gets so much unfounded credit it is ridiculous. He let two number 1 level, with one of them being Norris level, defensemen walk for nothing when the entire league knew they weren't staying. While they had said defensemen, he did nothing to try to obtain scoring help to make the team a contender except bargain basement deals. And matching the Weber deal was beyond moronic for a budget team. How much better would that team be today with 8 1st rd picks? Plus having Weber is keeping the Preds from actually getting the franchise changing players at the top of the draft. They won't make the playoffs for the next 5 years and this guy will still have his job.

My eyes told me AMac was a pretty good player for us. His adv stats say he sucked (at least that is what I hear from those who swear by it) So at least I will be looking at some things to see how much of it is accurate.
- MBFlyerfan

In the regular season for the Flyers his adv stats were OK with LSchenn, very good with Streit, and poor with Coburn. I don't think he's good enough defensively to handle first pairing duties.

So, because I'm fairly certain not too many folks have any interest in arguing about advanced stats in late July, I was wondering what you guys thought about this:

If you were picking today, with the majority of offseason moves complete, who do you like in each conference to win those, and who do you like for the Stanley Cup?

Just your thoughts; I'm just curious.
- AllInForFlyers

I really like what Tampa is doing. Not sure if they've passed Boston yet as the favorite in the east but with Chara aging they are close.

LA and Chicago still in the west, but I like Anaheim's moves and think they are a dark horse.

Definitely, nobody's expecting them to make decisions solely on the numbers... just that the numbers are capable of revealing things that might not have been plain to the naked eye, or exposing problems with conventional ways of thinking about the game.

Love that they're making zone-entries a point of focus... hopefully entering the zone w/ possession is going to be emphasized, too.
- Tomahawk

I agree. I'm glad that the numbers prove that having the puck more than the other team leads to more shots in general. Truly ground-breaking analysis.

So, because I'm fairly certain not too many folks have any interest in arguing about advanced stats in late July, I was wondering what you guys thought about this:

If you were picking today, with the majority of offseason moves complete, who do you like in each conference to win those, and who do you like for the Stanley Cup?

Just your thoughts; I'm just curious.
- AllInForFlyers

I would have to go with:Tampa Vs Anaheim

Anaheim wins.

In the regular season for the Flyers his adv stats were OK with LSchenn, very good with Streit, and poor with Coburn. I don't think he's good enough defensively to handle first pairing duties.
- Feanor

I don't know if I expect AMac to a first pairing guy....especially for an extended period of time. If there was one bit of info that we did learn is that you don't want to overexpose AMac.

Maybe, with a full camp and some time, he can adjust to different partners and be more consistent. But, you can't dress up french fries into potato salad. Some guys just are what they are.

Of course this couldn't go even ten posts without shots fired at "those stats guys" and turning into a pissing contest. Naturally, the world is divided strictly into two types of people, so that each can tear the other down for their fundamentally flawed line of group-think.

I really like what Tampa is doing. Not sure if they've passed Boston yet as the favorite in the east but with Chara aging they are close.

LA and Chicago still in the west, but I like Anaheim's moves and think they are a dark horse.
- Marc D

Does Chara actually age?

I mean, do we really know that?

That dude is probably in better shape than players 10 and 15 years younger than he is.

Interesting stuff Bill, however, to be honest, I find discussing advanced stats about as much fun as watching paint dry. So, with that in mind, here is my top ten pure goal scorers in Flyers history!!

1. Tim Kerr
Good lord, if this guy could have stayed healthy, he would have likely scored over 600 goals. Lightning quick release, pinpoint accuracy and he was just about impossible to stop, at least by any legal means. It really is shame that Kerr was out with injuries during both the 85 and 87 finals, he was a guy who certainly could have made a difference

2. Reggie Leach
What, you were expecting Jay Rosehill?? They didn't call Leach the Rifle for nothing. While everyone remembers his powerful slapshot, Leach also had a deadly wrister and nasty snap shot as well. And who could ever forget his scoring of 5 goals in a playoff game against Boston, while being somewhere between drunk and hung over! His combined regular season and playoff total of 80 goals in 75-76 is still a team record and probably will be for a very long time!

3. Rick Macleish
Macleish had the best pure wrist shot in team history and was also lethal on the breakaway. While he would disappear for long stretches at times, much like Danny Briere, he seemed to save his best games for the biggest ones. His deflection of Andre Dupont's shot in game 6 of the finals vs Boston in 74 is arguably the biggest goal in Flyers history.

4. John Leclair
Not only was he as strong as a bear and as hard to move from the front of the net as an oak tree, Leclair also possessed a nasty snap shot with an extremely quick release and he also excelled at pouncing on rebounds and putting them in.

5. Eric Lindros
The big guy excelled in every facet of the game and that certainly includes goal scoring. His shot was heavy and accurate and he also had a lethal backhander as well.

6. Brian Propp
Propper had a wicked snap shot that was both heavy and accurate. He also had a very good knack of knowing when to shoot and when to pass.

7. Mark Recchi
Recchi was known more as a playmaker than a goal scorer for much of his career, but he was no slouch when it came to scoring. Recchi had a very good shot and a great nose for the net, and, for a small guy, he had absolutely no fear of working the dirty areas of the ice.

8. Bill Barber
You don't finish with 420 career goals if you don't know how to score! Barber had both a very good wrist shot and slap shot, and he excelled on getting his shots through on net when he worked the point on the powerplay.

9. Jeff Carter
Sure he had his faults when he was here, but scoring goals wasn't one of them! Carter may not of had the most accurate shot, but it was extremely heavy and he is one of the few guys in today's game that can beat a goalie with an unscreened wrist shot.

10. Jeremy Roenick
Now if JR scored goals as well as he runs his mouth, he would have scored over a 1000! That being said, he had a true nose for the net and could beat you with a variety of shots.

Just missed the cut
Danny Briere
Claude Giroux
Simon Gagne
Ilka Sinisalo
- BiggE

This is a great list. I may put Gags ahead of JR if we're looking at just their time as a Flyer.

I guess the GMs think they can hold onto their jobs a little longer. Cheveldayoff is the poster boy for doing nothing. MacTavish is right up their too. Maloney in Phoenix is another one. Some of theses guys use their budget constraints as an excuse but that is bogus. The modern NHL is a young mans game. By the time most players hit free agency age, they will have started to decline. Only defensemen remain at the top into their 30's but even then a long bridge contract like McDonagh or OEL got can keep costs down during their prime years.

That brings me to the worst GM in the league: David Poile. This guy gets so much unfounded credit it is ridiculous. He let two number 1 level, with one of them being Norris level, defensemen walk for nothing when the entire league knew they weren't staying. While they had said defensemen, he did nothing to try to obtain scoring help to make the team a contender except bargain basement deals. And matching the Weber deal was beyond moronic for a budget team. How much better would that team be today with 8 1st rd picks? Plus having Weber is keeping the Preds from actually getting the franchise changing players at the top of the draft. They won't make the playoffs for the next 5 years and this guy will still have his job.
- psuhockey

Poile did assemble one of the all-time great defenses with Timonen, Hamhuis, Weber, Suter, and Zidlicky all being on the same team.

In the regular season for the Flyers his adv stats were OK with LSchenn, very good with Streit, and poor with Coburn. I don't think he's good enough defensively to handle first pairing duties.
- Feanor

No probably not. I see him as a second pair guy. But since the closest thing we have to a top pair guy is Coburn, maybe none of them are.

Two Tampas so far; interesting. You do have to respect their talent. I wonder, though: Do you guys feel comfortable with their depth at center, behind Stamkos?

I wonder about Val Filppula and Tyler Johnson when it gets to the second, third round, though I acknowledge they have a lot of things going for them and that Stralman really helps balance out their defense.
- AllInForFlyers

I think Tampa has as deep a group of forwards as any team out there.
They have depth on D, but I think the question is do they have the right mix on D?
I think so. Their centers are fine IMO.

Definitely underappreciated. Kerr was unstoppable when healthy
- Jsaquella

Agree 100 percent his numbers are amazing and he is never spoke of anywhere outside of Philly.

So, because I'm fairly certain not too many folks have any interest in arguing about advanced stats in late July, I was wondering what you guys thought about this:

If you were picking today, with the majority of offseason moves complete, who do you like in each conference to win those, and who do you like for the Stanley Cup?

Just your thoughts; I'm just curious.
- AllInForFlyers

Oh, come on; you know better than that.

In the East, I'd have to take Pittsburgh. They've addressed their biggest problem, the bottom-6, and their defense should be better this year. Barring injuries, they should be the top team if MAF plays like he did in last year's playoffs (aside from Round 1, Game 4).

In the West, it's hard to bet against LA and Chicago as a 1/2. They're the 2 best playoff teams in the game, and I'd put my money on one of them. In the end, I'm taking LA because Quick has been able to make the stops in crucial moments more so than Crawford.

Exactly, why ignore a tool that can help evaluate a team. Proper weight must be given to it, like all tools.

A hammer drill is a pretty good tool. But you can't use it to fix a computer. Same goes for analytics. You have to use a variety of stats and even then, nobody who is even half serious uses stats alone. The only people who seem to think stat heads don't watch games are the ones who rip stats & stats analysis.
- Jsaquella

I work in IT, I wouldn't be so sure about that.

Does Chara actually age?

I mean, do we really know that?

That dude is probably in better shape than players 10 and 15 years younger than he is.
- johndewar

He does but the progress is glacial.

I think he already has lost half a step.
With his size and reach he is still very very good.

He does but the progress is glacial.

I think he already has lost half a step.
With his size and reach he is still very very good.
- Marc D

It would be more noticeable if he lost wingspan instead of footspeed.

I think Tampa has as deep a group of forwards as any team out there.
They have depth on D, but I think the question is do they have the right mix on D?
I think so. Their centers are fine IMO.
- Marc D

I agree, I think Tampa will be the best in the East. Yzerman went out and improved his hockey team. He added B Boyle as a great 3 rd line player along with a couple Dman.
He also ripped NYR off in that trade, as Callahan resigned and got nice picks!

I really like Hextall, I just really thought he would have made a move to improve current team.

Exactly, why ignore a tool that can help evaluate a team. Proper weight must be given to it, like all tools.

A hammer drill is a pretty good tool. But you can't use it to fix a computer. Same goes for analytics. You have to use a variety of stats and even then, nobody who is even half serious uses stats alone. The only people who seem to think stat heads don't watch games are the ones who rip stats & stats analysis.
- Jsaquella

And the only people who seem to think that analytics are the be-all/end-all of player evaluation are stat heads who disregard conventional and real-time stats.

Edit: Neither one is right, and the debate is silly at this point.

It would be more noticeable if he lost wingspan instead of footspeed.
- Doc_Sarcasm

Agreed. He has, what a 65-inch stick to go along with an 8-foot wingspan? As long as he can slowly drift around, he's still an immense pylon.

Oh, come on; you know better than that.

In the East, I'd have to take Pittsburgh. They've addressed their biggest problem, the bottom-6, and their defense should be better this year. Barring injuries, they should be the top team if MAF plays like he did in last year's playoffs (aside from Round 1, Game 4).

In the West, it's hard to bet against LA and Chicago as a 1/2. They're the 2 best playoff teams in the game, and I'd put my money on one of them. In the end, I'm taking LA because Quick has been able to make the stops in crucial moments more so than Crawford.
- jmatchett383

You can never count out the Pens, but man they made some big changes.
Maybe they work out. I'm kind of wait and see about them at this point.
MAF is still a key factor how far they go. I think he is still a question mark for them.

So, the Canadiens offered Subban $5.25M for their arbitration hearing. If I were PK, I'd take that as a slap in the face, as I think he's moving into the "elite" defenseman class and should be making, maybe not $8.5M, but north of $7M.

So, the Canadiens offered Subban $5.25M for their arbitration hearing. If I were PK, I'd take that as a slap in the face, as I think he's moving into the "elite" defenseman class and should be making, maybe not $8.5M, but north of $7M.
- jmatchett383

Why would 5.25 be a slap in the face to Subban? They probably approached him and said you will be making A-Mac money!