I'd rather get rid of both and have Hall as the 13th guy, but that's just me.

I get the idea of an enforcer, but in practice, I'm not sure Rosehill fighting another goon protects or creates space for the skill guys.
- Jsaquella

Oh, I agree 100%, but with Hall gone, I'd rather have Rosehill sitting in the press box than one of their younger players.

Oh, I agree 100%, but with Hall gone, I'd rather have Rosehill sitting in the press box than one of their younger players.
- BiggE

Yeah, if they don't have Rosehill I'd rather sign a veteran depth guy, such as Handzus or Colin Fraser.

Yeah, if they don't have Rosehill I'd rather sign a veteran depth guy, such as Handzus or Colin Fraser.
- Jsaquella

Be cool to get Zeus back in the fold.

Be cool to get Zeus back in the fold.
- BiggE

Good size, smart player, good on faceoffs, slower than a broken down Zamboni, but as a 13th forward...

One thing no one can take away from Rinaldo: he wants to learn and works very hard at practice. He genuinely hangs on every word Laperriere says. As such, I wouldn't totally discount the possibility that he can better his game. It didn't happen last season but still might.
- bmeltzer

And I'm OK with that. It's obvious the team needs to develop more of its' own and not wildly wheel and deal, make things work internally before looking at the trade or UFA market. My biggest concern is the backwards nature of the way the team is structured. The scoring guns are roughly all at their peak and the prime prospects are on D and likely won't bloom until the window starts shutting on those offensive anchors.

I'm probably one of the few that likes Rinaldo. He doesn't bring a lot of skill but he does bring a lot of energy every shift and delivers the best hits on the team. He also seems to fit it really well with the team off the ice. As long as he is on the 4th line he's a non-issue for me. It would be helpful if he could kill penalties.

Good luck to Hall. Not flashy, but always worked hard.

Oh, Forsberg, we hardly knew ya in orange and black.

The Dude Abides

Last season, Rinaldo took too many penalties and didn't draw enough relative to the ones he took. The previous season, however. the ratio was a favorable one. Other than that, the main issue people take with Zac is that he is too much of a one-trick pony. He is a great hitter and good skater but doesn't handle the puck well, does not have an offensive game and is nothing special defensively. Perhaps he can evolve into a PK contributor (although the brief experiment last season didn't go very well) but right now, his usefulness is in a rather limited role.
- bmeltzer

I imagine that he could still become a decent PK'er... but not better than any of the guys they have right now.

Oh, Forsberg, we hardly knew ya in orange and black.
- wolfhounds

Second all time in PPG as a Flyer behind only Lindros.

I imagine that he could still become a decent PK'er... but not better than any of the guys they have right now.
- Tomahawk

Having a 4th line guy who doesn't get a lot of even strength minutes and no PP time chew up those tough PK minutes is a good thing if he can do the job. If he's a wash with a guy further up the depth chart who also gets some PP time and might need to get more ES time if you're trailing later in a game, generally speaking, I use the 4th liner.

I imagine that he could still become a decent PK'er... but not better than any of the guys they have right now.
- Tomahawk

That's the other rub...even with hard work and discipline, he's still likely to not be much better than average at it.

I get why people like the kid. He's entertaining, he hits, he fights, he's fun to watch.

I just think the potential, combined with what he is now, the end result would still be, at best, a decent 4th liner. If I'm going to put a ton of time and effort into brewing beer, I don't want to end up with Miller Lite.

I'm probably one of the few that likes Rinaldo. He doesn't bring a lot of skill but he does bring a lot of energy every shift and delivers the best hits on the team. He also seems to fit it really well with the team off the ice. As long as he is on the 4th line he's a non-issue for me. It would be helpful if he could kill penalties.
- moylander

For this team to go somewhere they need to get rid of one-dimensional players on their 4th line. A fourht line of Raffl, Laughton and Bellemare, for example, would let the Flyers to really play an uptempo style in both ends by distributing the minutes btw all lines. Wear and tear on the top forwards would also be reduced.

Having a 4th line guy who doesn't get a lot of even strength minutes and no PP time chew up those tough PK minutes is a good thing if he can do the job. If he's a wash with a guy further up the depth chart who also gets some PP time and might need to get more ES time if you're trailing later in a game, generally speaking, I use the 4th liner.
- fls13

In general, I agree. I think a good fourth line is an important part of a good team. If you can play your fourth line, game in and out 10-12 minutes a night, it lessens the burden on the top lines.

The trouble is, with Rinaldo, I don't think the Flyers have that. He's limited offensively, and mediocre defensively. He's more likely to take a penalty than not and despite Berube's willingness to increase his role, I just don't see enough reason to agree

In general, I agree. I think a good fourth line is an important part of a good team. If you can play your fourth line, game in and out 10-12 minutes a night, it lessens the burden on the top lines.

The trouble is, with Rinaldo, I don't think the Flyers have that. He's limited offensively, and mediocre defensively. He's more likely to take a penalty than not and despite Berube's willingness to increase his role, I just don't see enough reason to agree
- Jsaquella

Daniel Winnik was out there for 1.3 he could have played 3 or 4th line. The Leafs made some great pick ups all for under 1.5 and worth the shot on one year deals.

Hit me up with that Coots/Toews gif when toews looks back up at Coots in slow motion

I don't like any player who hurts the team with silly, pointless penalties.

I'm not buying that "draws more penalties than he takes" deal -- I don't dispute the math, for the one season, but to me, that doesn't matter at all if a) the guy can't play a regular shift and contribute either offensively or defensively, and b) loses control when provoked.

Zac Rinaldo works hard, and it don't dispute that or take it for granted. But at the same time, being disciplined and rolling four lines is a strength, and if one player can't do that consistently and keeps you from doing the other, then really, what is the point of playing him 5 or 6 minutes a game?

Bill Meltzer: Meltzer's Musings: Hall to Switzerland, Quick Hits
- bmeltzer

i will never forget Aug. 3, 2005

I imagine that he could still become a decent PK'er... but not better than any of the guys they have right now.
- Tomahawk

If he could become decent, it would open up the opportunity of moving Couts or Read off the PK and giving them more offensive opportunities.

I was one who advocated giving Rinaldo a chance to kill penalties last season after Talbot was traded. He proved to be decent at denying entires by using his speed and aggressiveness.

I felt his aggressiveness got him into trouble once the other team was set up. He, often, skated out of position trying to make a play that simply wasn't there.

The only way he'll get better at those things are through opportunity. It's just hard to allow him to improve in that area when the team is fighting for a playoff spot and so reliant on special teams.

My best advice is to use him A LOT during the preseason on the PK and see if he makes strides. I don't believe Couts and Read really need to play much on the PK in the preseason. The team is coming back with the same D and goalies from a year ago. Frankly, I don't want to see Couts out there blocking shots in the preseason anyway. I wouldn't mind seeing him used on the PK if the Flyers are ahead by 2 or more or behind by 2 or more.

In general, I agree. I think a good fourth line is an important part of a good team. If you can play your fourth line, game in and out 10-12 minutes a night, it lessens the burden on the top lines.

The trouble is, with Rinaldo, I don't think the Flyers have that. He's limited offensively, and mediocre defensively. He's more likely to take a penalty than not and despite Berube's willingness to increase his role, I just don't see enough reason to agree
- Jsaquella

With Hall gone they are going to need another forward on the PK. For now, it's G, Read and Couturier . . . that's it. Umberger has done it, so I'm sure he's going to get a shot but if one of those guys goes down . . .

It's a good opportunity for Rinaldo. I have no problem giving young players a shot at stepping up.

With Hall gone they are going to need another forward on the PK. For now, it's G, Read and Couturier . . . that's it. Umberger has done it, so I'm sure he's going to get a shot but if one of those guys goes down . . .

It's a good opportunity for Rinaldo. I have no problem giving young players a shot at stepping up.
- fls13

I don't either. I'd rather it be a young guy with more potential. Scott Laughton, Michael Raffl, even Akeson or Brandon Alderson. I just don't see Rinaldo being good enough or disciplined enough to be more than a fringe guy.

I'm all for trying a young guy there, just don't see Rinaldo having enough potential to be more than just a guy

Daniel Winnik was out there for 1.3 he could have played 3 or 4th line. The Leafs made some great pick ups all for under 1.5 and worth the shot on one year deals.
- 3flyerkids

Yeah, I love Winnik & Santorelli. Booth could be a good one, too

I don't either. I'd rather it be a young guy with more potential. Scott Laughton, Michael Raffl, even Akeson or Brandon Alderson. I just don't see Rinaldo being good enough or disciplined enough to be more than a fringe guy.

I'm all for trying a young guy there, just don't see Rinaldo having enough potential to be more than just a guy
- Jsaquella

You may be right but the defensive side of the game is tougher to pick up. If Rinaldo had an offensive upside, we'd have seen it by now but D work is so much about effort and positioning. The effort is a given, the positioning can take awhile.

You may be right but the defensive side of the game is tougher to pick up. If Rinaldo had an offensive upside, we'd have seen it by now but D work is so much about effort and positioning. The effort is a given, the positioning can take awhile.
- fls13

It can take time, but the lack of discipline in terms of taking penalties as leads me to question if he can bring the discipline needed to become a stronger positional player.

The discipline to keep position, and not get to running around, things like that. It worries me that he may simply never get it or be able to consistently apply it. I want a 4th line that can just go out, play 10 minutes a night on a regular basis, and not be a liability. Right now, Rinaldo can't do that, and I have concerns he will never be able to

Yeah, I love Winnik & Santorelli. Booth could be a good one, too
- Jsaquella

Any one of those players would have benefited this team.
I am waiting for Hextall to make some kind of move to improve the team that walked off the ice game 7 in NY

It didn't have to be a blockbuster, just a deal that would add speed or 4th line depth.
The Umberger deal didn't cut it for me