I have an easier criteria on judging the impact of the trade. I think Ottawa improves in the standings. I think the Dallas D gets torched and gives up too many goals.
- spatso

Spezza just can't win with you can he?

Stone we've seen a lot of, WJC, WHL playoffs and in Ottawa in regular season and playoffs - and we've seen him progress from a guy who could barely keep up in the NHL to a player who is skating at an NHL level and was Ottawa's best forward some nights last season.

Poeple who think Stone is a nobody are the same people who thought Erik Karlsson as a 19 year old player was a nobody, Ottawa missed EK when they sent him to the AHL and when I said that everybody said he's only 19 years old - I don;t care if it's only been 25 games for Stone, the guy is an NHL player and a very good NHL player
- tuna99

I don't disagree with a lot of this, Stone is not a nobody and has a wonderful, high ceiling, and is good enough to play in the NHL right now.

The bolded is way over the top though, he was never once our best forward for any game.

My argument isn't that Stone isn't good, it's that Hoffman is even better, and is being treated like a nobody in here.

Accomplishments for Stone (22 years old):
-3rd in WHL scoring at 18 years old
-Made it to second round of WHL playoffs at 19
-Led Canada in Scoring at WJHC for a bronze medal
-15G/38 points in 54 games first season in AHL
-15G/41 points in 37 games last year in AHL.
-8 points in 19 games in NHL in mostly limited minutes

Accomplishments for Hoffman (24 years old):
-3rd in QMJHL scoring at 19
-QMJHL MVP after leading team to first place finish with 46G/85P in 56 games
-Made it to QMJHL playoff finals
-Had a rough start to AHL career, but bounced back at end of the year to score 9 points in 19 games for calder winning binghamton.
-Next season, led binghamton in scoring with 21G/49P in 76 games
-Season ending injury after scoring 28 points in 41 games
-Lit up AHL with 30G/67P in 51 games, and scored 6 in 25 with Senators playing mostly in limited NHL minutes.

So basically, my point is that their accolades are extremely similar to this point in their careers, but yet evryone talks about Stone as a future top line star, and about Hoffman as if he were Corey (frank)ing Locke.

That's a mistake, they're both great prospects and will both have big years this year IMO. Hopefully making Michalek expendable by the deadline.

You're basing all of this opinion on 19 games for Stone, and 25 for Hoffman.
If you liked what you saw more, fine, your opinion, but it's not a legitimate sample size to evaluate players.
- TommyDeVito

Trying to convince some people that Stone isn't already the best scoring winger on the team, or that less than a quarter of a season isn't an overly reliable sample size upon which to make grand conclusions is surprisingly difficult. Apparently we can now safely liken his development to that of Karlsson as well, because all players who've scored points at the junior and AHL levels are just like Karlsson. Of course, Karlsson is also the most offensively-productive player in the world at his position, and was making the NHL at the same age that Stone was making the WJC team... but apparently Turris once said he liked playing with Stone, so the usual process of looking for tangible evidence won't be required.

Truthiness is a quality characterizing a "truth" that a person making an argument or assertion claims to know intuitively "from the gut" or because it "feels right" without regard to evidence, logic, intellectual examination, or facts.
... who knew it would be relevant to more than just Fox News and the Bush administration?

As for Hoffman, I generally agree with you in terms of what he's capable of bringing to the table - but he has to show that he can at least be the sum of his parts at the NHL level, because small sample size or not, there are other quality LW in the system that are going to start pushing for opportunities. But for this year, Puempel and Prince are probably still not ready to make the jump, and there are only MacArthur, Michalek, and Greening as other natural LW on the roster - so this could be as good a chance as Hoffman will ever have to prove that he's able to be an impact player in the NHL.

To be fair, all your argument is Hoffman put up nice numbers in the AHL. He and Stone are in the same spot really, with Stone being younger and being able to be sent down easily if it becomes a numbers game.
- Gord_Wilson_2.0

This is exactly what I'm saying, Gord.

But it seems like most think Stone is a super lock for the roster, and Hoffman is waiver bait. Their value as players is pretty much equal right now.

Trying to convince some people that Stone isn't already the best scoring winger on the team, or that less than a quarter of a season isn't an overly reliable sample size upon which to make grand conclusions is surprisingly difficult. Apparently we can now safely liken his development to that of Karlsson as well, because all players who've scored points at the junior and AHL levels are just like Karlsson. Of course, Karlsson is also the most offensively-productive player in the world at his position, and was making the NHL at the same age that Stone was making the WJC team... but apparently Turris once said he liked playing with Stone, so the usual process of looking for tangible evidence won't be required.

Truthiness is a quality characterizing a "truth" that a person making an argument or assertion claims to know intuitively "from the gut" or because it "feels right" without regard to evidence, logic, intellectual examination, or facts.
... who knew it would be relevant to more than just Fox News and the Bush administration?

As for Hoffman, I generally agree with you in terms of what he's capable of bringing to the table - but he has to show that he can at least be the sum of his parts at the NHL level, because small sample size or not, there are other quality LW in the system that are going to start pushing for opportunities. But for this year, Puempel and Prince are probably still not ready to make the jump, and there are only MacArthur, Michalek, and Greening as other natural LW on the roster - so this could be as good a chance as Hoffman will ever have to prove that he's able to be an impact player in the NHL.
- khawk

Agree with all of this - especially the last, Hoffman has to seize the opportunity when it is given, and hopefully it actually will be - if they bury him in favor of Michalek, Greening, and whoever the hell else, and watch him succeed with another franchise, I will be sour as (frank).

I think this lineup is pretty ideal. The guys in bold are the better possession (read: defensively sound) players. Optimizing them, IMO, is key. You can exchange any one of the top 3 centres at will, without sacrificing defensive play. You can also exchange Hoff for CMac, or Chiasson for Ryan, to find some spark.

Obviously MacLean won't see it this way, and we'll all be screaming at him every game for putting out Yost's first lineup.

Oh, and Condra vs Neil? It's no contest. Neil should be healthy scratched, just about every night.
- Stringer74

I hope its a situation where we have 1LW and 1 RW step up in an offensive way. I mean its one thing to say Hoffman looked good last season and it's another thing for him to have a 20/30/50+ kind of year. But for this team to be succesful we need to have somebody step up. If everybody plays as good as last year we aren't making the playoffs. I think everyone should have a better year given the age of our team. Maybe legwand stinks or stone plays 30 games with 5 points. We assume we know what we are getting with our top 4 veteran forwards. But our season offensively relies on a Hoffman, stone, zibanejad, lazar, etc to step up and become a top 6 offensive force