You're being too objective.

I'll break it down like this:

1.) Pronger might have done players dirty, but he was OUR guy doing players dirty.

2.) Scott Stevens intentionally injured one of the best players in Flyers history.

In conclusion, (frank) Scott Stevens.
- johndewar

Pronger never did anything egregious while with the Flyers. Stevens went out of his way to take a guys head off. Look at his hit against Kariya. It's disgusting. The puck had left his stick for a few seconds too.

Exactly. This is the year to tank if they were going to. These are really generational talents getting drafted and Philly needs to be a team drafting one of them early in the draft not at num 20 like usual. Philly always gets a good player at 20 or so but we need to be in top 5 to get that elite future player
- 28Girouxsalem28

Giroux went 22nd overall.

Is he not an elite player?

Ryan Sittler went 7th overall, and looked how he turned out.

I'll never accept tanking. Never. I'm sorry, if that makes me the problem, if me wanting to make the playoffs every year is one factor in the Flyers not winning a Cup, since they never are in line to get the Doughtys and Toews of the world.

Again, I'm sorry. But I'm on board with Ed Snider 100 damn percent. Not making the playoffs is unacceptable. It is. It happens. But you should never plan for it to happen, or want for it to happen, and you should try like hell to not let it happen.
- AllInForFlyers

I think you're right but I'm not happy with the fact that unless we acquire a serious num 1 d we aren't doing anything to improve the team. It's been clear since 2010 that without that we are a playoff team but not a contender. One bad season for a generational talent is ok with me

Giroux went 22nd overall.

Is he not an elite player?

Ryan Sittler went 7th overall, and looked how he turned out.
- KGBflyers10

It would be difficult to tank anyway. They still have talented players. Giroux is one of the 10 best players in hockey. Unless he gets injured, they're going to be in contention for a playoff spot.

I think Schenn must have called "switch!" and then proceeded to get completely left in the dust by Brunner, hence throwing his head up in futility after the puck went in.
- Tomahawk

He looked brutal on that play -- again, one play. One snapshot. But Sweet Mary Mother of God. Ouch.

The Flyers didn't tank in "The Season that Shall Not Be Named", but they were terrible.

I had season tickets during that year and I don't think I was excited about going to games until they got Marty Biron and Scott Upshall in those trades.

That was a rough season to go down to the WFC.
- johndewar

I don't think they tanked either. But what I'm saying is that it's impossible for the Flyers to tank this season with the roster they have. Even losing Giroux, Voracek, and Mason for extended periods of time wouldn't have them at the worst record.

The Flyers didn't tank in "The Season that Shall Not Be Named", but they were terrible.

I had season tickets during that year and I don't think I was excited about going to games until they got Marty Biron and Scott Upshall in those trades.

That was a rough season to go down to the WFC.
- johndewar

I counted at least a dozen times I was the only one in my row at the start of the third period. It was the longest year since the early 90s. At least then I was stoned.

I think you're right but I'm not happy with the fact that unless we acquire a serious num 1 d we aren't doing anything to improve the team. It's been clear since 2010 that without that we are a playoff team but not a contender. One bad season for a generational talent is ok with me
- 28Girouxsalem28

We get this generational talent and its another center and we still don't have a number one d-man.

I'll never accept tanking. Never. I'm sorry, if that makes me the problem, if me wanting to make the playoffs every year is one factor in the Flyers not winning a Cup, since they never are in line to get the Doughtys and Toews of the world.

Again, I'm sorry. But I'm on board with Ed Snider 100 damn percent. Not making the playoffs is unacceptable. It is. It happens. But you should never plan for it to happen, or want for it to happen, and you should try like hell to not let it happen.
- AllInForFlyers

I feel exactly the same. It sickens me to see what the sixers are doing. I know it's a business, and some teams will tank just to get that "investment" at #1. But I will never be in favor of tanking. If my team sucks and misses playoffs, then I want to see them make the right moves to fix what was wrong. If they miss playoffs by a LOT and are at the bottom of the league, I'm not going to be upset when the lose... as I want to see them get the #1 pick too... but I will never encourage them trying to lose. I pay money to support the team (tickets, jerseys, shirts, license plates, etc).. I expect them to go out there every damn night and try to win. Even if they have a 15-50 record at the time... I think respect for fans dictates the players, and coaches still be putting in 110% night in and night out.

Again, jmo. But I just hate the deliberate tanking theory... I'd rather have a pick at 25 with respect, than #1 because they purposely lost, and won the battle of "who can be the most embarrassing"...

I think you're right but I'm not happy with the fact that unless we acquire a serious num 1 d we aren't doing anything to improve the team. It's been clear since 2010 that without that we are a playoff team but not a contender. One bad season for a generational talent is ok with me
- 28Girouxsalem28

A generational talent still needs time to develop. Are you willing to waste away another two/three seasons of Giroux's prime on a generational talent?

No thanks.

We get this generational talent and its another center and we still don't have a number one d-man.
- aflyerpower8

Right but if you draft one of these guys voracek b schenn Simmons all become trade bait for that d man.

Thats true and you likely never will again. The way they played would never fly in today's game.
- JonnyHammerstix

Giroux went 22nd overall.

Is he not an elite player?

Ryan Sittler went 7th overall, and looked how he turned out.
- KGBflyers10

yea but he's not a generational talent

Right but if you draft one of these guys voracek b schenn Simmons all become trade bait for that d man.
- 28Girouxsalem28

I'd argue all of those players should be trade bait for a number one d-man right now without this bonus generational center.

A generational talent still needs time to develop. Are you willing to waste away another two/three seasons of Giroux's prime on a generational talent?

No thanks.
- KGBflyers10

We are wasting him now without a d core good enough to withstand playoffs. Plus the d prospects we have now are at least 3 years away.

I don't know about those specific player comparisons, but I really hope that BSchenn turns into a productive, consistent Top 6 forward.
- johndewar

Man, I hope so -- he's not perfect, and I've been wrong before, but I think he can play. I just really think that there's more there, and that he can get the job done for the Flyers.

It's up to him. He's got to do it for 82 games, not go into those ridiculous 6-10 game stretches where he's invisible. But man, I just really think it's in there.

A generational talent still needs time to develop. Are you willing to waste away another two/three seasons of Giroux's prime on a generational talent?

No thanks.
- KGBflyers10

I suspect that Eichel and McDavid will be good enough to hit the ground running...

yea but he's not a generational talent
- 2Real

G is top 5 offensive player in the league. So he's pretty damn close.

I feel exactly the same. It sickens me to see what the sixers are doing. I know it's a business, and some teams will tank just to get that "investment" at #1. But I will never be in favor of tanking. If my team sucks and misses playoffs, then I want to see them make the right moves to fix what was wrong. If they miss playoffs by a LOT and are at the bottom of the league, I'm not going to be upset when the lose... as I want to see them get the #1 pick too... but I will never encourage them trying to lose. I pay money to support the team (tickets, jerseys, shirts, license plates, etc).. I expect them to go out there every damn night and try to win. Even if they have a 15-50 record at the time... I think respect for fans dictates the players, and coaches still be putting in 110% night in and night out.

Again, jmo. But I just hate the deliberate tanking theory... I'd rather have a pick at 25 with respect, than #1 because they purposely lost, and won the battle of "who can be the most embarrassing"...
- WarriorHockey21

The NBA is different. That league requires you to gain one superstar and try and build around them. The only way to get that superstar is to be in the top three or five. If you're middle of the road, playoff bubble team, you're not going tot make progress in the NBA.

In the NHL, you can still get quality players in the mid to late 1st round--guys who will do more than simply be a bench warmer. If the NHL was like the NBA, draft wise, Edmonton would be cruising to another Stanley Cup.

I feel exactly the same. It sickens me to see what the sixers are doing. I know it's a business, and some teams will tank just to get that "investment" at #1. But I will never be in favor of tanking. If my team sucks and misses playoffs, then I want to see them make the right moves to fix what was wrong. If they miss playoffs by a LOT and are at the bottom of the league, I'm not going to be upset when the lose... as I want to see them get the #1 pick too... but I will never encourage them trying to lose. I pay money to support the team (tickets, jerseys, shirts, license plates, etc).. I expect them to go out there every damn night and try to win. Even if they have a 15-50 record at the time... I think respect for fans dictates the players, and coaches still be putting in 110% night in and night out.

Again, jmo. But I just hate the deliberate tanking theory... I'd rather have a pick at 25 with respect, than #1 because they purposely lost, and won the battle of "who can be the most embarrassing"...
- WarriorHockey21

That's where I am.

We are wasting him now without a d core good enough to withstand playoffs. Plus the d prospects we have now are at least 3 years away.
- 28Girouxsalem28

the defensive core is okay, not the greatest, but certainly not the worst. As long as Mason continues his great play, the D can always mature and become tighter.

People have to remember the Flyers went through a rebuild after the 2011 playoffs. The returns on those moves should be coming in this season and the next season. Are you suggesting we blow it up again just to wait around? Why do you think the Flyers haven't won anything since '75? It's because the organization doesn't have patience to stick with a long term plan. Name the past few Cup winners--all of them had long term plans, early playoff exits, etc. The core needs time to develop.

I don't think they tanked either. But what I'm saying is that it's impossible for the Flyers to tank this season with the roster they have. Even losing Giroux, Voracek, and Mason for extended periods of time wouldn't have them at the worst record.
- KGBflyers10

Man, I don't know, you lose those three guys for extended periods of time with that D and you could very well lose the season series to Buffalo and Florida.

G is top 5 offensive player in the league. So he's pretty damn close.
- 28Girouxsalem28

i love giroux but he's not a gretzky, mackinnon, lindros, or crosby

I don't like the idea of tanking, but I consider rebuilding a legitimate strategy. I would never try to miss the playoffs purposely in a single season, but would be fine trading away older players for draft picks/young players which could facilitate losing in the short term.

I'd argue all of those players should be trade bait for a number one d-man right now without this bonus generational center.
- aflyerpower8

Simmons is on my no trade list. But if you bring in eichel it's a lot easier to move him. Right now unless its OEL pietrangelo comin back for Simmonds + I'd be ok with that.