Seriously, find me 3 teams in the NHL with better 1 through 6 depth than the Coyotes on D. Then let's see if they have Summers and Schlemko at 7/8, or anyone as good as Yandle on their second pairing.

I don't claim to know every team in hockey as intimately as I know PHX, I mean, I do have another job and can't spend all my time on hockey, but I am reasonably knowledgeable about the other 29 teams and I don't think it can be done. Maybe one or two, but not three.
- James_Tanner

I will gladly take LA, NYR, STL, and CHI over AZ and that's just off the top of my head.

What about him?
- Feds91Stammer

I think people really actually undervalue the defensive group that Phoenix can bring to the table. OEL is top ten in the NHL, while Yandle is one of the elite puck movers in the game. Depth, toughness, youth, and a superstar. It's all there. The defence will help, what on paper, is a pretty below average forward group, to be almost average.

I won't quibble with Hanzel, whose awesome when healthy. Nor will I debate the value of Boedker or your third and fourth line depth, however, Hanzel and Boedker only represent 1/3 of a decent forward grouping. Gagner was given PLENTY of offensive opportunity and ice time in Edmonton and hasn't proven, in my mind, as much as Boedker and Hanzel have. Okay, so he's your second line centre. I don't think he's a good second line centre at this point. Perhaps he takes a step this year and that gives you 3 top six forwards, two of whom are somewhat on the fragile side (Hanzel and Gagner). Who are your other top six forwards? If your saying Samuelsson and Domi then I think your just putting WAY to much hope in 5 forwards taking big steps all at once. Just don't see it.

However, I do trust that as a group they will play solid D and that Tippit will find a way to put them all in good positions to have success. The D and goaltending will be good enough to ensure they are competitive. Playoffs? Maybe. Sure fire thing? No way. Like you said they are right in the Dallas, Minny, Nashville, Col, SJ grouping. With maybe Minny/Sj pushing out a little ahead and Vancouver climbing just behind.
- Ragingpikey

Solid assessment. I agree with most of it, though I am a little higher on Gagner. I still think you'll see Yandle moved for a top line forward before the season starts, and I do think Erat is a pretty decent second line players as well.

You got anything to back that up? As I said, I'm happy to argue points, but if you're just going to post one sentence calling me an idiot, then why even bother?
- James_Tanner

Because that sentence said it all I don't agree plus time restraints wedding in a few hours. I dont think the D is as good as you say Doan is old and done and there is no one to score. I placed them Bottom 5 this year. Saying delusional isnt calling you a idiot I wouldn't do that.

Solid assessment. I agree with most of it, though I am a little higher on Gagner. I still think you'll see Yandle moved for a top line forward before the season starts, and I do think Erat is a pretty decent second line players as well.
- James_Tanner

Phoenix and their coaching should be a good spot for Erat, so I could see him returning to a reasonable top 6 forward. IF you move Yandle that would help, although that would downgrade the D and you would have to rely on one of those young guys being legitimately ready. Still, so much can be covered up when you have a 30 min a night minute muncher like OEL and a team approach to the defensive end.

I would never do that. Those terms are asinine.

I laid out my reasons already. Just tell me why I'm wrong.
- James_Tanner

Cause your forward's are (frank)ing terrible and won't be able to score?

I don't see a single sabres prospect on D who even has the chance - let alone the probability - of being as good as OEL.

Obviously, the Sabres are amassing a good stockpile of young players, but the Coyotes guys are all NHL ready and it appears that they could dress a top 6 this year that includes 3 top pairing guys and 3 second pairing guys.

I don't think the Coyotes match up against anyone on just potential, I think they have the best 1-6 D in hockey. Defense is so important in the NHL that only a horrible year of goaltending can stop them from making the playoffs.
- James_Tanner

Touched that you are including Edmonton as a dark horse this year but I think Arizona has a very real chance to be a bottom 5 team this year.

- Sabresfan-365

agree

I will gladly take LA, NYR, STL, and CHI over AZ and that's just off the top of my head.
- Feds91Stammer

Not me. I think all four of those groups have a more established top two: Doughty (well pretty much Doughty), MacDonagh/Girardi, Shatenkirk/Pietrangelo, Keith/Seabrook, but I think OEL has the highest ceiling of all players not named Doughty. He's not as good as Keith yet, but he could be better, and I think he's equal or better than Pietrangelo or MacDonagh. Plus Phoenix has a better pipeline than any of those groups.

Right now, for this year, I'd take Stl, Pho, Chi, NYR, LA

LA's D is overrated do to the style their team plays. Doughty is so much better than any other player they have, even Voinov/Muzzin that it skews how we view them. I actually don't think their personal matches up to other teams in that group.

Solid assessment. I agree with most of it, though I am a little higher on Gagner. I still think you'll see Yandle moved for a top line forward before the season starts, and I do think Erat is a pretty decent second line players as well.
- James_Tanner

Nyquist + for Yandle?

Not me. I think all four of those groups have a more established top two: Doughty (well pretty much Doughty), MacDonagh/Girardi, Shatenkirk/Pietrangelo, Keith/Seabrook, but I think OEL has the highest ceiling of all players not named Doughty. He's not as good as Keith yet, but he could be better, and I think he's equal or better than Pietrangelo or MacDonagh. Plus Phoenix has a better pipeline than any of those groups.

Right now, for this year, I'd take Stl, Pho, Chi, NYR, LA

LA's D is overrated do to the style their team plays. Doughty is so much better than any other player they have, even Voinov/Muzzin that it skews how we view them. I actually don't think their personal matches up to other teams in that group.
- Ragingpikey

Regardless, it's close and Phoenix can reasonably be placed in the conversation.

Not me. I think all four of those groups have a more established top two: Doughty (well pretty much Doughty), MacDonagh/Girardi, Shatenkirk/Pietrangelo, Keith/Seabrook, but I think OEL has the highest ceiling of all players not named Doughty. He's not as good as Keith yet, but he could be better, and I think he's equal or better than Pietrangelo or MacDonagh. Plus Phoenix has a better pipeline than any of those groups.

Right now, for this year, I'd take Stl, Pho, Chi, NYR, LA

LA's D is overrated do to the style their team plays. Doughty is so much better than any other player they have, even Voinov/Muzzin that it skews how we view them. I actually don't think their personal matches up to other teams in that group.
- Ragingpikey

La D is not at all overrated who is not as good as people say? Muzzin and Voinov are great.

Nyquist + for Yandle?
- Feds91Stammer

IF I were a Detroit fan, I would not want to move Nyquist. I'd rather turn my attention to an Edler/Hamhuis (if vancouver struggles out of the gate) or another middle tier guy and keep Nyquivst. Surely you can use Tatar to get something good.

The West being so good is just an overdone cliche. Yeah, ST. Louis, Chicago and LA are 3 of the 5 best teams in hockey, but after that?

I don't think teams like NYR, Philly, Detroit, Toronto, Montreal, Washington and Columbus are any worse than SJ, Anaheim, Colorado, Nashville, Phoenix, Dallas etc.


Anaheim, San Jose and Colorado will all finish behind the Coyotes.
- James_Tanner

youre dreaming if you think those 3 teams will finish behind the coyotes. Just be happy you have a chance of getting McDavid and be done with it

Regardless, it's close and Phoenix can reasonably be placed in the conversation.
- Ragingpikey

Dont think they are close at all right down the entire west cost in order and then yu see how far down PHX slips.

La D is not at all overrated who is not as good as people say? Muzzin and Voinov are great.
- jake24242

OVerated is maybe the wrong term. If you take OEL and Doughty out, I like Phoenix' group better than LAs. LA has a good D, but I think its worse than any of those listed.

Not me. I think all four of those groups have a more established top two: Doughty (well pretty much Doughty), MacDonagh/Girardi, Shatenkirk/Pietrangelo, Keith/Seabrook, but I think OEL has the highest ceiling of all players not named Doughty. He's not as good as Keith yet, but he could be better, and I think he's equal or better than Pietrangelo or MacDonagh. Plus Phoenix has a better pipeline than any of those groups.

Right now, for this year, I'd take Stl, Pho, Chi, NYR, LA

LA's D is overrated do to the style their team plays. Doughty is so much better than any other player they have, even Voinov/Muzzin that it skews how we view them. I actually don't think their personal matches up to other teams in that group.
- Ragingpikey

Top 3 where I come from means Top 3 right now. The system cop out is a (frank)ing joke. If the players are no good the system will fail. AZ is good definitely a top 10 D core but top 3 is pushing it.

youre dreaming if you think those 3 teams will finish behind the coyotes. Just be happy you have a chance of getting McDavid and be done with it
- DDM-Coga

Truer words could not be spoken

Dont think they are close at all right down the entire west cost in order and then yu see how far down PHX slips.
- jake24242

Not sure how you can reasonably state that Phoenix's D isn't in the conversation for top D groups in the NHL. Unless you undervalue OEL, Yandle, etc. If you do then sure, you can make the argument. I would disagree.

agree
- jake24242

Phoenix have a good defense, but saying summers/schlemko at 7 and 8 is a sign of great defensive depth doesn't mean much to me. That's completely subjective, it's no different than teams like LA, Chicago, NYR etc. claiming that because player x and player y are 7 and 8 on the depth chart that means our defense is the best in the league. Once you get that low on the chart it becomes really subjective given their limited ice time.

Top 3 where I come from means Top 3 right now. The system cop out is a (frank)ing joke. If the players are no good the system will fail. AZ is good definitely a top 10 D core but top 3 is pushing it.
- Feds91Stammer

Not if the players in that system are ready to push and move into the NHL. Then you can reasonably include them in the depth.

IF I were a Detroit fan, I would not want to move Nyquist. I'd rather turn my attention to an Edler/Hamhuis (if vancouver struggles out of the gate) or another middle tier guy and keep Nyquivst. Surely you can use Tatar to get something good.
- Ragingpikey

Tatar>Nyquist and we don't need middle tier guys that can't put up lots of points, especially if they are lefties.

youre dreaming if you think those 3 teams will finish behind the coyotes. Just be happy you have a chance of getting McDavid and be done with it
- DDM-Coga

Every time I read something like that, i get insecure

Tatar>Nyquist and we don't need middle tier guys that can't put up lots of points, especially if they are lefties.
- Feds91Stammer

Hmmm, you like Tatar better than Nyqvist? Well if you do, then making a move would make sense given that I would assume most of the league likes Nyqvist better no?