Ugh. It's something I disagree with so adamantly, it bothers me that teams will do it.
- AllInForFlyers

Mmm... is it really tanking if you just fail to improve? It's not exactly a yard sale up there.

If only it had more parks...
- TobyFlenderson

Malarial bogs don't count?

Mmm... is it really tanking if you just fail to improve? It's not exactly a yard sale up there.
- Tomahawk

Yes. Whether you tank by intentionally getting bad players or you tank by intentionally not trying to get good players, it's still tanking.

Edit: If you are trying like crazy to improve and nothing works (see the late 80s/early 90s Flyers), that's a different case.

Mmm... is it really tanking if you just fail to improve? It's not exactly a yard sale up there.
- Tomahawk

See, I think it's just as awful, but I freely admit I'm on the militant side of that.

It's one thing to be Buffalo, where Lindy Ruff and Darcy Regier wore out their welcome and their talent base eroded. Because every year, 14 teams aren't going to make the playoffs. That's just the way it is.

But you could at least see Buffalo trying to get better. I'm not saying Brian Gionta and Josh Gorges and Matt Moulson are going to be difference-makers, but at least they're saying, "Yeah, we're bad, but we don't want to be. We'd rather be winning hockey games."

At least they're TRYING.

But to me, Winnipeg hasn't even done THAT. It's one thing to try and come up short. But I don't even see how it can be argued that they're even trying.

See, I think it's just as awful, but I freely admit I'm on the militant side of that.

It's one thing to be Buffalo, where Lindy Ruff and Darcy Regier wore out their welcome and their talent base eroded. Because every year, 14 teams aren't going to make the playoffs. That's just the way it is.

But you could at least see Buffalo trying to get better. I'm not saying Brian Gionta and Josh Gorges and Matt Moulson are going to be difference-makers, but at least they're saying, "Yeah, we're bad, but we don't want to be. We'd rather be winning hockey games."

At least they're TRYING.

But to me, Winnipeg hasn't even done THAT. It's one thing to try and come up short. But I don't even see how it can be argued that they're even trying.
- AllInForFlyers

This. I also don't think Edmonton tanks, I think they're just crazy mismanaged.

This. I also don't think Edmonton tanks, I think they're just crazy mismanaged.
- jmatchett383

I questioned them a couple of years back, but I feel pretty comfortable saying that they were absolutely pissed about how last year went -- they totally didn't think they'd be picking Top 5 again.

But to me, Winnipeg hasn't even done THAT. It's one thing to try and come up short. But I don't even see how it can be argued that they're even trying.
- AllInForFlyers

Guess I'm just a believer that they'll be pretty terrific in 2-3 seasons doing nothing and growing organically. Even more so if they manage to come out with McDavid/Eichel this season.

Guess I'm just a believer that they'll be pretty terrific in 2-3 seasons doing nothing and growing organically. Even more so if they manage to come out with McDavid/Eichel this season.
- Tomahawk

That's pretty much tanking. See: Pittsburgh 2003-2006

Guess I'm just a believer that they'll be pretty terrific in 2-3 seasons doing nothing and growing organically. Even more so if they manage to come out with McDavid/Eichel this season.
- Tomahawk

No worries; I know you're bullish on some of their young guys.

I'm less enthused about some of their talent, and I do think they need to change the mix up there. But if they're just looking for more lottery picks, they're not going to do that.

I know this: I'd be effing pissed if somebody showed me that I'm throwing away another season on the hope that we MIGHT get an impact player in the draft.

Eff that. Eff that. EFF THAT.

So did I miss a ton of fascinating analytic discussions? I've been MIA for a few days. I wanted to pop in and say HI and commiserate with those who miss hockey as much as I do right now.
I went to the Phillies game yesterday with a bunch of co-workers. I have now seen a someone take a professional pitch to the head. That was about the only exciting part, hahaha....
- FlyersGrace

We did manage to tie in analytics with Andrew MacDonald's dating life.

And doing things outside of the office with co-workers is always an adventure. Did anyone get too drunk and overshare?

If only it had more parks...
- TobyFlenderson

I feel bad for MacDonald, honestly. Seems he will be the scape goat that Carle was.

I know this: I'd be effing pissed if somebody showed me that I'm throwing away another season on the hope that we MIGHT get an impact player in the draft.

Eff that. Eff that. EFF THAT.
- AllInForFlyers

They're also operating with extremely little margin for error.

Say they go all-in for Joe Thornton or something today... if that ends up like Pronger did for the Flyers, they're most likely relocating their franchise again.

There's no Snider-bucks safety net to help them recover from that level of mistake/misfortune.

I feel bad for MacDonald, honestly. Seems he will be the scape goat that Carle was.
- GOA88

I don't feel bad for people making 5 mil a year... . Even if it's to be the scapegoat.

What I will say, is that he's a lot better than fans have painted him and he brings more to the team than he is given credit for.

I feel bad for MacDonald, honestly. Seems he will be the scape goat that Carle was.
- GOA88

But far, far worse, I think, because we have all new tools to bash with.

Also, I think #FancyStats proved that Carle was not as bad as some thought he was.

If you're Winnipeg, though, you can probably find a better trading partner than the Flyers, even if you said you don't want to deal him in the Western Conference.

I'm not saying that the Flyers COULDN'T get him. It's that there are other teams out there who have even more pieces than the Flyers do who could offer up some pretty nice packages.

For instance: If the Islanders started throwing pieces around, they could land some folks.
- AllInForFlyers

Winnipeg's GM has never traded a player. This is a good indication that his trade demands are prohibitively high.

But far, far worse, I think, because we have all new tools to bash with.

Also, I think #FancyStats proved that Carle was not as bad as some thought he was.
- johndewar

Im sick of Corsi stats. please spare me....

I don't feel bad for people making 5 mil a year... . Even if it's to be the scapegoat.
- flyler

Its unjust.That is what Im saying.

Im sick of Corsi stats. please spare me....
- GOA88

But far, far worse, I think, because we have all new tools to bash with.

Also, I think #FancyStats proved that Carle was not as bad as some thought he was.
- johndewar

Carle was a scapegoat because of his TOI and the type of competition he faced. He was no worse than any of the other players, but because he was out so much and placed in positions where he was counted to bail the team out, every turnover he made was magnified. A guy like Bruno Gervais can make a turnover, but he's usually not in a prone position against top-flight players. Carle was, so when he made a mistake, it ended up in the back of the net. You're seeing it with Coburn now as well.

Also, I think #FancyStats proved that Carle was not as bad as some thought he was.
- johndewar

Eyeballs and anecdotes... poor Matt Carle.

I don't feel bad for people making 5 mil a year... . Even if it's to be the scapegoat.

What I will say, is that he's a lot better than fans have painted him and he brings more to the team than he is given credit for.
- flyler

I'll be the scape goat for $200K a year.

There is a difference between tanking and rebuilding. Tanking is putting in your AHL goalie, like Heeter, in to lose games. Rebuilding is selling off parts for assets because your core is mediocre and you need to start fresh. There is nothing wrong with rebuilding.

I would have no problem if the Flyers had a fire sale. There is nothing worst than being trapped in that mediocre middle group just in or out of the playoffs edge with no real chance to win in if you get in and no chance for a franchise changing player if you are out. Get busy living or get busy dying I say.

I'll be the scape goat for $200K a year.
- jmatchett383

Make that $100,000

Eyeballs and anecdotes... poor Matt Carle.
- Tomahawk

One time, Matt Carle made an errant pass to Chris Pronger. On the bench, Pronger glared at the stick, which caused the stick to immediately disintegrate rather than to face Pronger's wrath.