Even at the tiniest level, 2 shots per is still significant, considering only 25-35 get put on net by either side per game. 6-8% is still a pretty significant margin.
- Tomahawk

He simply doesn't believe in the basic ideas of statistics like the idea that trends can be determined by looking at LARGE segments of numbers.

You know guys, Dominick Hasek was nothing but a backup with a sub-.900 save percentage his first 3 years in the league. So really, Steve Mason is better than Dominick Hasek.

See how stupid that sounds?

Belfour = HOFer
Mason = NHL starter.
- jmatchett383

I'm not sure I understand your point; players get better and worse and are judged by the entirety of their careers.

My point was that Mason has played well enough for the Flyers to move forward, and while Ed Belfour was really good in Dallas and for a few years in Chicago, there were some lean years in between and Belfour's ability to win, especially in the playoffs, was questioned.

I said repeatedly that there were analogs, not exact matches, and that the Flyers need some players to improve and be consistent. But the 1999 Stars had a ton of questions that the players answered -- could Brett Hull be a team player? How much did guys like Pat Verbeek and Carbonneau and Reid have left in the tank? Was Mike Modano a pretty boy or a winner?

The comparisons aren't exact, but Ed Belfour was questioned about his ability to win when he joined the Stars.

Belfour's style, IMO, led to him being a very streaky goalie.
- BiggE

huh?

I'm not sure I understand your point; players get better and worse and are judged by the entirety of their careers.

My point was that Mason has played well enough for the Flyers to move forward, and while Ed Belfour was really good in Dallas and for a few years in Chicago, there were some lean years in between and Belfour's ability to win, especially in the playoffs, was questioned.

I said repeatedly that there were analogs, not exact matches, and that the Flyers need some players to improve and be consistent. But the 1999 Stars had a ton of questions that the players answered -- could Brett Hull be a team player? How much did guys like Pat Verbeek and Carbonneau and Reid have left in the tank? Was Mike Modano a pretty boy or a winner?

The comparisons aren't exact, but Ed Belfour was questioned about his ability to win when he joined the Stars.
- AllInForFlyers

A lot of elite goaltenders are questioned about their abilities to win, including King Henrik, Pekka Rinne, Hasek himself, etc. Mason is not on their level, he likely never will be, and, if the team around him is good enough, he doesn't need to be.

However, if you want to judge a player based on the entirety of their careers, Mason has been subpar at best for the majority of it, while guys like Belfour/Hasek were elite for the majority of theirs. You can't take a 1+ year sample and compare it across 6+ years when there are significant differences.

History is always kind to champions, as it should be -- winning erases all questions. But when you look back and remember some of these teams, many of them had to get over the same kinds of hurdles that the Flyers will have to.

Mike Modano, for example, used to get absolutely carved to pieces, for not being gritty enough and not being a good enough leader. It took a Cup to silence his doubters -- but he didn't have one until 1999.

did we get Bogo, Leino or Penner yet?

did we get Bogo, Leino or Penner yet?
- vejim

in 4 days, they will sign Hayes.

in 4 days, they will sign Hayes.
- wilsonecho91

I am actually hoping for that. Even if he is not a superstar it is worth the risk to see what potential he has. Size and skill don't just grow on trees. Could be solid low risk.high reward

in 4 days, they will sign Hayes.
- wilsonecho91

it has always been Hayes dream to play in Philly with Bob Ryab

It's my understanding that he is a boat anchor with every woman he has ever dated and can't quite hold onto a relationship.

Some women have referred to their time with him as a "black hole" of time and space.

/science
- johndewar

What do you expect when the lights are low and they have some cocktails and he pullls out the Corsi and Fenwick discussion, doing a game a by game self analysis on their date

History is always kind to champions, as it should be -- winning erases all questions. But when you look back and remember some of these teams, many of them had to get over the same kinds of hurdles that the Flyers will have to.

Mike Modano, for example, used to get absolutely carved to pieces, for not being gritty enough and not being a good enough leader. It took a Cup to silence his doubters -- but he didn't have one until 1999.
- AllInForFlyers

Same thing with Yzerman. People shredded him before 1997. Now he's a legendary captain

Nickleback vs. Van Halen? You people clearly don't know what you're talking about.

The battle should be between:

Bananarama and Right Said Fred.

What do you expect when the lights are low and they have some cocktails and he pullls out the Corsi and Fenwick discussion, doing a game a by game self analysis on their date
- Steelmanpa

Lights are low... I thought his troubles w/ entries would be more front and center.

A lot of elite goaltenders are questioned about their abilities to win, including King Henrik, Pekka Rinne, Hasek himself, etc. Mason is not on their level, he likely never will be, and, if the team around him is good enough, he doesn't need to be.

However, if you want to judge a player based on the entirety of their careers, Mason has been subpar at best for the majority of it, while guys like Belfour/Hasek were elite for the majority of theirs. You can't take a 1+ year sample and compare it across 6+ years when there are significant differences.
- jmatchett383

I think it could easily be argued that Ed Belfour played really well on teams that had good talent and coaching, and that Steve Mason didn't -- look who Ed Belfour played with early in his career, as opposed to who Mason played with.

Belfour was playing with guys like 50-goal Jeremy Roenick, in-prime Chris Chelios and supporting players like Doug Larmer and Dirk Graham, under Mike Keenan.

Mason was playing with Rostislav Klesla and Andrew Cassels -- it's not the same! I acknowledge that Belfour is an HOFer and deserves to be there, but the two situations aren't the same.

Same thing with Yzerman. People shredded him before 1997. Now he's a legendary captain
- Jsaquella

I think the good thing about the Flyers is that the leader of the team is someone who has produced when the lights have burned hottest -- Giroux needs to take it easy in the summers, but I don't think anybody questions what that guy is, regular-season or postseason.

It's a start, right?

- Tomahawk

I've seen people mock these ice bucket challenges, but I think they are pretty neat.

And leave it to BizNasty to take it next level and bring even more attention to a worthy cause.....well done, sir!

- Tomahawk

The ground view of him in the speedo

I think it could easily be argued that Ed Belfour played really well on teams that had good talent and coaching, and that Steve Mason didn't -- look who Ed Belfour played with early in his career, as opposed to who Mason played with.

Belfour was playing with guys like 50-goal Jeremy Roenick, in-prime Chris Chelios and supporting players like Doug Larmer and Dirk Graham, under Mike Keenan.

Mason was playing with Rostislav Klesla and Andrew Cassels -- it's not the same! I acknowledge that Belfour is an HOFer and deserves to be there, but the two situations aren't the same.
- AllInForFlyers

So you're saying the Flyers and their defense are comparable to the early 90's Hawks teams and defense?

Maybe it's that Mason, yes, played on some bad teams (although the transition from 08/09 to subsequent seasons wasn't drastic in terms of the Jackets' roster) and that Ed Belfour just had a bad stretch in his last year before goign to Dallas. With Belfour, a bad season was an abberation. With Mason, to date, a good season was an abberation. I hope that he makes the bad seasons an abberation in the future.

Edit: I'm not saying Mason's bad. So far as a Flyer, he has been good enough if given the right team. But to compare him to a guy like Ed Belfour is just...I don't even know.

When you break things down into the smallest scale possible, it does become irrelevant. We're looking at the shot differential for an entire season though. 132 more ES shots means about 11 more ES goals during the course of a season.

When the NHL changes its season from 82 games to 1 game, then your argument will make sense.

I feel like you don't understand the difference between individual circumstances and large sample sizes.
- PhillySportsGuy

It's shots attempted per game, not shots on net. And you have no idea about the quality of shots.

Even at the tiniest level, 2 shots per is still significant, considering only 25-35 get put on net by either side per game. 6-8% is a pretty significant margin.
- Tomahawk

It's shots attempted, not on net. And a lot more then 25-35 are attempted by a team in a game.

I think the good thing about the Flyers is that the leader of the team is someone who has produced when the lights have burned hottest -- Giroux needs to take it easy in the summers, but I don't think anybody questions what that guy is, regular-season or postseason.

It's a start, right?
- AllInForFlyers

Giroux is a beast, who can bring it in the big spotlight of the playoffs. He's a fantastic building block

He simply doesn't believe in the basic ideas of statistics like the idea that trends can be determined by looking at LARGE segments of numbers.
- PhillySportsGuy

I think we need to have Corsi class again.

Giroux is a beast, who can bring it in the big spotlight of the playoffs. He's a fantastic building block
- Jsaquella

But we're wasting him by not trading all of our young players for Nail Yakupov and Zach Bogosian.

So you're saying the Flyers and their defense are comparable to the early 90's Hawks teams and defense?

Maybe it's that Mason, yes, played on some bad teams (although the transition from 08/09 to subsequent seasons wasn't drastic in terms of the Jackets' roster) and that Ed Belfour just had a bad stretch in his last year before goign to Dallas. With Belfour, a bad season was an abberation. With Mason, to date, a good season was an abberation. I hope that he makes the bad seasons an abberation in the future.

Edit: I'm not saying Mason's bad. So far as a Flyer, he has been good enough if given the right team. But to compare him to a guy like Ed Belfour is just...I don't even know.
- jmatchett383

Really, that's what I'm saying: Mason's looking good enough to win with, and I'm more comparing the Flyers roster to the 1999 Stars' roster, not the early 90s Blackhawks.

There are some eerie similarities in personnel, not exact clones. And yes, you are certainly correct in saying that Belfour's bad season was an aberration, but it could also be said that the three-year slide that Belfour was in prior to that season looked like that of a goalie who wins when there is talent around him and is less effective when there isn't.

And I'm not saying that's a revelation -- it's hard for a goalie to look good when they're not playing on talented teams with a good system. But that's also what I'm saying has hampered Mason; the Flyers, for all their flaws as a franchise, are still a better franchise than Columbus has been, and Mason's numbers for the Flyers indicate something positive.