Okay. He had a bad number. But that's the sole piece of evidence he provided, which means we can only judge him solely on that number and place him accordingly.
- jmatchett383

The damning thing is, apart from testimony from Isles fans, that that number is INCREDIBLY bad, even when compared to the other players on the ice with him, and it not only didn't improve, but actually got worse when he changed teams.

- PhillySportsGuy

One team being the new york islanders.
Who else were they going to play?
The other team being the Flyers... who we all agreed at the beginning of this conversation have a bad d-corps.

The point of all this is that the faith they put in him is misplaced. Using that faith as evidence isn't exactly a solid argument.
- Schenn-Sational!

Well, until the Flyers miss the playoffs with Andy MacDonald in the lineup, or give up the most shots in league history, I'm gonna just keep right on faking it.

Well, until the Flyers miss the playoffs with Andy MacDonald in the lineup, or give up the most shots in league history, I'm gonna just keep right on faking it.
- AllInForFlyers

but why can't anyone provide an argument other than "22 minutes"?

Well, until the Flyers miss the playoffs with Andy MacDonald in the lineup, or give up the most shots in league history, I'm gonna just keep right on faking it.
- AllInForFlyers

or until the Leafs win a Cup.

The damning thing is, apart from testimony from Isles fans, that that number is INCREDIBLY bad, even when compared to the other players on the ice with him, and it not only didn't improve, but actually got worse when he changed teams.
- BINGO!

Interesting, and that's with reduced minutes, too.

- ob18

He was the Kevin Hayes of his era

Using advanced stats to make a point here is like shooting Mongo in Blazing Saddles. It only makes them mad
- Jsaquella

These aren't advanced:

164th in ratio of team goals scored vs goals against while on ice,
142nd in points per 60,
186th in individual shots for per 60,
157th in hits per 60,
134th in giveaways per 60,
120th in takeaways per 60,
177th in team icings taken while on ice.

but why can't anyone provide an argument other than "22 minutes"?
- Schenn-Sational!

Because in my book, until MacDonald plays a full season with the Flyers after going through a full training camp with systems practice, I don't know what he is.

I know what he looked like with the Islanders -- a team that has been every bit as feeble as the Leafs -- and if someone's looking for something to troll about, those numbers are there. I can read them, and I can see them.

But until he fails with the Flyers and they don't make the playoffs, man, it's just all talk coming from non-playoff teams. Because at the end of the day, whatever MacDonald didn't do, or the Flyers and their defense didn't do, the Leafs and Hurricanes did worse.

Because they weren't playing after Game 82. It's that simple.

Well, until the Flyers miss the playoffs with Andy MacDonald in the lineup, or give up the most shots in league history, I'm gonna just keep right on faking it.
- AllInForFlyers

The Flyers aren't bad enough to lead the league in that category, but that doesn't justify that contract. Fortunately you have guys like Simmonds/Giroux/Voracek/Couturier at good value cap hits to off-set those horrible Vinny/Streit/McDonald/Umberger deals.

These aren't advanced:

164th in ratio of team goals scored vs goals against while on ice,
142nd in points per 60,
186th in personal shots for per 60,
157th in hits per 60,
134th in giveaways per 60,
120th in takeaways per 60,
177th in team icings taken while on ice.


- Tomahawk

Hard to argue any of this, assuming this is factual.

Where does Mary fit into this equation?
- PhillySportsGuy

She's married to Pete, but she's banging Paul on the sly.

Well this has been very entertaining, I'm glad you stopped by to tell us how terrible our team is.

I'm gonna go home and play with my baby daughter and bang my wife. Enjoy going home to your igloo and crying into your Moulson Ice while watching old VHS tapes of the 1967 Finals.
- jmatchett383

Why are you attacking a whole nation because he's simply stating his opinion?

She's married to Pete, but she's banging Paul on the sly.
- Jsaquella

This makes puff the magic dragon a little more difficult to listen to

Why are you attacking a whole nation because he's simply stating his opinion?
- EagleNuck

Does your igloo have an open floor plan?

MacDonald might be the worst defenseman on the Flyers. He might be the worst defenseman in the league. If the numbers suss that out and synch with the eye-test, so be it.

But hockey's a team sport. Whatever failings the guy has, he's on a team now that, thus far, was able to make the playoffs.

The Flyers are a better franchise than the Leafs. Have been since expansion. That's what you're missing in all of this.

MacDonald might be the worst defenseman on either team. But the Flyers have been better than the Leafs for damn near 50 years now.

FIFTY YEARS.

That's all that matters. Your franchise is horrible. One of the most inept organizations, pre- and post-lockout, the NHL has to offer.

You can throw out advanced stats on MacDonald all day long. But take a look at the scoreboard once in a while.

Does your igloo have an open floor plan?
- PhillySportsGuy

I've upgraded to a snow fort actually.



You down to your goal weight of 400 pounds yet?

Interesting, and that's with reduced minutes, too.
- Schenn-Sational!

He had a CF% rating of freaking 16% in a 4-2 Flyers WIN last year.

I like the Flyers, but that guy is overpaid. His possession numbers are brutal.
- Nucker101

I think you can argue he is slightly overpaid. Possession numbers are a team number, not an individual number.

MacDonald might be the worst defenseman on the Flyers. He might be the worst defenseman in the league. If the numbers suss that out and synch with the eye-test, so be it.

But hockey's a team sport. Whatever failings the guy has, he's on a team now that, thus far, was able to make the playoffs.

The Flyers are a better franchise than the Leafs. Have been since expansion. That's what you're missing in all of this.

MacDonald might be the worst defenseman on either team. But the Flyers have been better than the Leafs for damn near 50 years now.

FIFTY YEARS.

That's all that matters. Your franchise is horrible. One of the most inept organizations, pre- and post-lockout, the NHL has to offer.

You can throw out advanced stats on MacDonald all day long. But take a look at the scoreboard once in a while.
- AllInForFlyers

So it's okay to sign bad players because, historically, your team has been better than the Leafs?

Great measuring stick, bud.

MacDonald might be the worst defenseman on the Flyers. He might be the worst defenseman in the league. If the numbers suss that out and synch with the eye-test, so be it.

But hockey's a team sport. Whatever failings the guy has, he's on a team now that, thus far, was able to make the playoffs.

The Flyers are a better franchise than the Leafs. Have been since expansion. That's what you're missing in all of this.

MacDonald might be the worst defenseman on either team. But the Flyers have been better than the Leafs for damn near 50 years now.

FIFTY YEARS.

That's all that matters. Your franchise is horrible. One of the most inept organizations, pre- and post-lockout, the NHL has to offer.

You can throw out advanced stats on MacDonald all day long. But take a look at the scoreboard once in a while.
- AllInForFlyers

if mac donald is our worst dman that's a good problem to have

He had a CF% rating of freaking 16% in a 4-2 Flyers WIN last year.
- BINGO!

Now they'll use this as proof that fancy stats don't matter.

I've upgraded to a snow fort actually.



You down to your goal weight of 400 pounds yet?
- EagleNuck

No, not yet.

Thats actually mean. I really do have a weight problem. You dont actually live in an igloo…I think

I think you can argue he is slightly overpaid. Possession numbers are a team number, not an individual number.
- MJL

It's an indicator. And when everybody else on the team does better than he does, it's a glaring one.

He had a CF% rating of freaking 16% in a 4-2 Flyers WIN last year.
- BINGO!

Wait until you get to VLs