I could. He ended the year playing good hockey.

He probably won't be here when we are good. I don't see the urgency to move him.

Let him and Stewart pad their stats playing top line minutes
- sbroads24

I bet most of us could make poorly supported arguments by limiting the universe of data in such a way as to make it non-representative.

But Stafford has been playing regularly with the Sabres for 8 years now, and he has only broken the 20 goal plateau 3 times. So even though you COULD, don't.

I'm not urgently trying to move him, or Stewart. I'm just distinguishing both of them from Hodgson and Ennis.

Doesn't he want to play in the NHL right away? Like Schultz?
- sbroads24

Exactly that is the problem in Chicago . I do not want him up here . He should start in AHL . Not interested in him under his terms.

I bet most of us could make poorly supported arguments by limiting the universe of data in such a way as to make it non-representative.

But Stafford has been playing regularly with the Sabres for 8 years now, and he has only broken the 20 goal plateau 3 times. So even though you COULD, don't.

I'm not urgently trying to move him, or Stewart. I'm just distinguishing both of them from Hodgson and Ennis.
- Der Kaiser

By you using the "20 goal plateau" you are doing the same thing.

He averages 19 goals a season. 22 goals per 82 games played.

He's a top 6 player on half the teams in this league.

Doesn't he want to play in the NHL right away? Like Schultz?
- sbroads24

If he was as good as Schultz he could, reality is no team will really consider offering him that unless it's in a limited role.

I'd start him on the top line in the AHL and then call him up perhaps mid way through or at the deadline and have him play a top 6 role with a guy like Hodgson on his wing.

Still puts him in a much better position than what he would have originally had in Chicago.

If he was as good as Schultz he could, reality is no team will really consider offering him that unless it's in a limited role.

I'd start him on the top line in the AHL and then call him up perhaps mid way through or at the deadline and have him play a top 6 role with a guy like Hodgson on his wing.

Still puts him in a much better position than what he would have originally had in Chicago.
- Sabresfan-365

I'd take him. He has skill. Don't know about a 3 mil AAV though.

I'd take him. He has skill. Don't know about a 3 mil AAV though.
- sbroads24

Pretty good defensively as well. Not sure we'd even be allowed to but if they could structure it as 3 mil because of bonuses I'd do it.

Pretty good defensively as well. Not sure we'd even be allowed to but if they could structure it as 3 mil because of bonuses I'd do it.
- Sabresfan-365

3mil for a kid that hasn't played a pro game yet ?

Pretty good defensively as well. Not sure we'd even be allowed to but if they could structure it as 3 mil because of bonuses I'd do it.
- Sabresfan-365

As long as he doesn't have to become a buy out I'm for it.

Im all for taking chances on talent for the next 2 years

3mil for a kid that hasn't played a pro game yet ?
- cabin

no 3 mil cap hit. As in he could earn up to 3 mil in bonuses should he score x amount of goals and x amount of points.

Kind of like the contract Iginla signed with the Bruins a year ago.

1.8mil base salary, 4.2 mil in performance bonuses= 6 mil cap hit

My fear is they re-sign them.
- Sabresfan-365

Unfounded fear . TM has stated his goal is to work 2 - 3 young ones in a year . If you resign Stewart and Stafford you cannot do that . I think his goal is to let Ted Nolan get max effort out of them and get max value for them at the deadline.

=sbroads24 As long as he doesn't have to become a buy out I'm for it.

Im all for taking chances on talent for the next 2 years

Oh man, I can picture the media reaction, not pretty

By you using the "20 goal plateau" you are doing the same thing.

He averages 19 goals a season. 22 goals per 82 games played.

He's a top 6 player on half the teams in this league.
- sbroads24

C'mon fella, I didn't pick the 20 goal plateau out of thin air, that's a measure that's used frequently by many people.

And your stats are wrong. Stafford - in the total of eight seasons he's seen significant time with the Sabres - has scored 136 goals. http://sabres.nhl.com/club/player.htm?id=8471226

136/8 = 17.0 goals per season.

C'mon fella, I didn't pick the 20 goal plateau out of thin air, that's a measure that's used frequently by many people.

And your stats are wrong. Stafford - in the total of eight seasons he's seen significant time with the Sabres - has scored 136 goals. http://sabres.nhl.com/club/player.htm?id=8471226

136/8 = 17.0 goals per season.
- Der Kaiser

He only played 41 games his rookie year, and he actually was on pace for 26 that year.

Per 82 games played he averages 22 goals. It's convenient to say "Only hit the 20 goals plateau 3 times" which is fine, I say it too. Just find it ironic that you used that just after telling me that I was minimizing the universe of data when you did the exact same thing

He only played 41 games his rookie year, and he actually was on pace for 26 that year.

Per 82 games played he averages 22 goals. It's convenient to say "Only hit the 20 goals plateau 3 times" which is fine, I say it too. Just find it ironic that you used that just after telling me that I was minimizing the universe of data when you did the exact same thing
- sbroads24

Unless you can point me to a chunk of the hockey watching community using "the end of last season" as a milestone of success, you might consider packing this one in.

Unless you can point me to a chunk of the hockey watching community using "the end of last season" as a milestone of success, you might consider packing this one in.
- Der Kaiser

Who said anything about success? You are reaching for an argument here.

In fact I really don't understand your point.

Mine is that some of these players who the fans want to leave are better than what they are given credit for. Don't get me wrong, I'm done with Stafford too. I hope Armia is our future 2nd RW. But I'm not going to discredit Stafford when he plays well just because he's Drew Stafford

Who said anything about success? You are reaching for an argument here.

In fact I really don't understand your point.

Mine is that some of these players who the fans want to leave are better than what they are given credit for. Don't get me wrong, I'm done with Stafford too. I hope Armia is our future 2nd RW. But I'm not going to discredit Stafford when he plays well just because he's Drew Stafford
- sbroads24

Buffalo fans see Stafford as 2 different players. The player he is and the player they hoped him to be.

Stafford is a top 6 forwards on most teams in the league (not top 3 that he was here last year). But they see his flashes of brilliance and expect more of that when its just not there. Fans want him to hit a gear he doesn't have. There are far worse players you could have in the top 6.

Fact is Buffalo fans and probably Stafford himself would be better if they part ways after (or during this season).

I also will add I liked what I saw from Stafford after Nolan took over. He played a more harder style, driving the net, working really hard in the corners. Things that will lead to the score sheet when playing with more talent. I am not expecting a 35 goal season from him but I wouldn't be surprised if he was on pace for 25-30 goals at the deadline when I bet he will be moved.

Buffalo fans see Stafford as 2 different players. The player he is and the player they hoped him to be.

Stafford is a top 6 forwards on most teams in the league (not top 3 that he was here last year). But they see his flashes of brilliance and expect more of that when its just not there. Fans want him to hit a gear he doesn't have. There are far worse players you could have in the top 6.

Fact is Buffalo fans and probably Stafford himself would be better if they part ways after (or during this season).

I also will add I liked what I saw from Stafford after Nolan took over. He played a more harder style, driving the net, working really hard in the corners. Things that will lead to the score sheet when playing with more talent. I am not expecting a 35 goal season from him but I wouldn't be surprised if he was on pace for 25-30 goals at the deadline when I bet he will be moved.
- Stripes77

Agreed, in fact I'm shocked he made it past the trade deadline when Pominville was moved. I just think he along with other players deserve somewhat of a pass for the end of the Ruff, and the entire Rolston era

Who said anything about success? You are reaching for an argument here.

In fact I really don't understand your point.

Mine is that some of these players who the fans want to leave are better than what they are given credit for. Don't get me wrong, I'm done with Stafford too. I hope Armia is our future 2nd RW. But I'm not going to discredit Stafford when he plays well just because he's Drew Stafford
- sbroads24

The conversation started as one whether Stewart should be lumped with Ennis and Hodgson (all 20 goal scorers [as you noted, first, by the way]) who don't deserve the fans' criticism. My point is that Stewart and Stafford do deserve the criticism, while Ennis and Hodgson don't, because Stewart and Stafford have been around long enough to know what we see is what we get, while Ennis and Hodgson are at the Stewart/Stafford level already, but still developing and improving.

But it's certainly not worth where it has gone.

The conversation started as one whether Stewart should be lumped with Ennis and Hodgson (all 20 goal scorers
- Der Kaiser[as you noted, first, by the way]) who don't deserve the fans' criticism. My point is that Stewart and Stafford do deserve the criticism, while Ennis and Hodgson don't, because Stewart and Stafford have been around long enough to know what we see is what we get, while Ennis and Hodgson are at the Stewart/Stafford level already, but still developing and improving.

But it's certainly not worth where it has gone.

I agree they deserve some criticism. Stafford has definitely been around long enough, but I think that at some point people should accept that regardless of how frustrating he is to watch, he's still a decent NHL player


You are right though, Hodgson and Ennis are entering their prime, while Stafford and Stewart are right in the middle. It's not getting much better for either

I agree they deserve some criticism. Stafford has definitely been around long enough, but I think that at some point people should accept that regardless of how frustrating he is to watch, he's still a decent NHL player


You are right though, Hodgson and Ennis are entering their prime, while Stafford and Stewart are right in the middle. It's not getting much better for either
- sbroads24

Common ground.

1. Buffalo Sabres

The Sabres were tough on the eyes this past season. But at the prospect level, they have the best system in the NHL. With Rasmus Ristolainen graduated, eight of Buffalo's top 10 prospects are forwards, to go along with an elite defenseman prospect in Nikita Zadorov. In addition to the balance of forward positions, there is a balance of different playing styles. For instance, Sam Reinhart and Mikhail Grigorenko play different types of games than graduate Zemgus Girgensons. Hudson Fasching, J.T. Compher and Joel Armia are all different types of players, as well, yet are still top prospects. The future is bright in Buffalo, and not just because it's August.
- burner087

So we're #1 without Ristolainen.

I just wanted to clear up the Kevin Hayes contract thing.

In short, he can only sign a 2-year ELC at $900,000 per year. He is eligible for performance bonuses that could up his total compensation. So there won't be a 3 year, $9 million contract given to him. Everyone can stop reading here, but I'll include a more detailed explanation below for anyone who might be interested (I'm bored at work today):

He must sign an Entry Level Contract. Since he is currently 22, his ELC is 2 years. All ELCs are two-way contracts.

Because he was drafted in 2010, his maximum salary under the ELC is $900,000, which includes his base salary AND signing bonus AND games played bonus. So whatever combination of base salary, signing bonus, and games played bonus he and his new team agree upon at signing cannot exceed $900,000/year. The AHL salary is also fixed by the ELC system, but I didn't look up what it is for a 2010 draftee (it's $70k for anyone drafted 2011 or later).

Performance bonuses cannot exceed $2.85 million. Performance bonuses do not count against the cap unless the total amount in performance bonuses paid out by the team for the year exceed 7.5% of the salary cap maximum. If you go over the cushion, then there is a penalty against the team's cap for the following season.

I just wanted to clear up the Kevin Hayes contract thing.

In short, he can only sign a 2-year ELC at $900,000 per year. He is eligible for performance bonuses that could up his total compensation. So there won't be a 3 year, $9 million contract given to him. Everyone can stop reading here, but I'll include a more detailed explanation below for anyone who might be interested (I'm bored at work today):

He must sign an Entry Level Contract. Since he is currently 22, his ELC is 2 years. All ELCs are two-way contracts.

Because he was drafted in 2010, his maximum salary under the ELC is $900,000, which includes his base salary AND signing bonus AND games played bonus. So whatever combination of base salary, signing bonus, and games played bonus he and his new team agree upon at signing cannot exceed $900,000/year. The AHL salary is also fixed by the ELC system, but I didn't look up what it is for a 2010 draftee (it's $70k for anyone drafted 2011 or later).

Performance bonuses cannot exceed $2.85 million. Performance bonuses do not count against the cap unless the total amount in performance bonuses paid out by the team for the year exceed 7.5% of the salary cap maximum. If you go over the cushion, then there is a penalty against the team's cap for the following season.
- JetpackJesus

THank you. THats why I posted the
earlier. Knew he needed the ELC first . But wasn't sure what they were getting at with the 3m per comments.

THank you. THats why I posted the
earlier. Knew he needed the ELC first . But wasn't sure what they were getting at with the 3m per comments.
- cabin

That's why I mentioned the performance bonuses bit, didn't know the max was 2.85 over 2 however. That's likely what his contract will be with this many teams vying for him.

OMG Grigorenko and Armia on the 4th line? Are you in Colorado right now smoking that legal weed or something? Grigorenko and Armia will spend the majority of the season in the AHL and if they do get the call up it won't be for the freaking 4th line.
- Jammerz04

Tell him how you really feel.