First comment, okay I agree.

Second comment, no...... Turris alone will be in the same category as Kessel this season; a top line player. Then you throw in Mac (who is a legitimate top 6 forward on a cup contender; a top line player on a lot of teams) then I'll take those two over Kessel; especially when contracts are considered
- AlfieisKing

Why is Turris going to be in the same category as Kessel?

He had 22 fewer points, 11 fewer goals, and it's not like he's some kind of defensive beast. Given that they were only drafted one year apart, what makes you think Turris is going to make up that gap, and Kessel won't improve further?


As for MacArthur, he was a 2nd/3rd liner on the Leafs... and is a 1st liner on the Senators because... well... who else is going to be? My prediction is that he'll regress back to a .5-.6ppg player, just like he did with the Leafs, after his first season.

First comment, okay I agree.

Second comment, no...... Turris alone will be in the same category as Kessel this season; a top line player. Then you throw in Mac (who is a legitimate top 6 forward on a cup contender; a top line player on a lot of teams) then I'll take those two over Kessel; especially when contracts are considered
- AlfieisKing

I'm not willing to call Turris a top line player yet, nor would I say Mac (who I like as a player) is a top line player "a lot of teams".

They're both 2nd line players on any team that would hope to compete, and like I said before that's not a knock.

I wouldn't trade Kessel for Mac and Turris, and if you wouldn't make that deal from your side I'm not going to ask why.

Kessel is a better player than either of those two, and I'd rather him on my team than both of them. That being said you guys will get great value from Turris on his contract, and good value on MacArthur's.
- BetterCallSaul

Of course Kessel is a better player than both, but you get two players for that price and I don't think Kessel would be worth those two players in a trade.

This has turned into a complete poop show, and I love it.
- ClarksonDavid

Anytime you get Saul, Glucky, and Walshy in the same thread, poop is about to go right to hell.

I think it would be much harder to acquire a player of Kessels talent then to aquire players like Turris and MacArthur
- ClarksonDavid

Perhaps, but you don't need superstars to win games, what you need are players with better puck possession, for which Turris and Macarthur are some of the best in the league. Watch Turris slowly develop into a top tier talent of the NHL in the next few years. So potential wise, its a landslide victory to Turris/Mac combo.

Of course Kessel is a better player than both, but you get two players for that price and I don't think Kessel would be worth those two players in a trade.
- PtotheY

Why not get 8 Colton Orrs?

Kessel is a better player than either of those two, and I'd rather him on my team than both of them. That being said you guys will get great value from Turris on his contract, and good value on MacArthur's.
- BetterCallSaul

I see it as eddy van halen vs. ron wood & keith richards. eddy is sick and talented to the gills, but ron & keith together just have it going on.

Of course Kessel is a better player than both, but you get two players for that price and I don't think Kessel would be worth those two players in a trade.
- PtotheY

Teams that take quantity as a substitute for quality don't really come out on top of the trade.

MacArthur and Turris(to a lesser extent) are replaceable players. You can find their type in UFA almost every year. Guys like Kessel, on the other hand, don't come along very often.


Lets put it this way... any two of the Leafs' bargain bin UFAs should outproduce(or come close to) Turris or MacArthur... at a fraction of the cost. Would you trade either player for that?

Why is Turris going to be in the same category as Kessel?

He had 22 fewer points, 11 fewer goals, and it's not like he's some kind of defensive beast. Given that they were only drafted one year apart, what makes you think Turris is going to make up that gap, and Kessel won't improve further?


As for MacArthur, he was a 2nd/3rd liner on the Leafs... and is a 1st liner on the Senators because... well... who else is going to be? My prediction is that he'll regress back to a .5-.6ppg player, just like he did with the Leafs, after his first season.
- Feeling Glucky?

According to almost any statistic, he is absolutely a defensive beast.

plus/minus, goal differential, corsi, you name it - he was among the better players league-wide.

Well Kessel is better than either Turris, or MacAthur, but I doubt a non-Leaf fan would say that it is better to have Kessel instead of a Turris/MacArthur combo...

by the way I think a Bosak/Kessel combo is very comparable to the Turris/MacArthur combo. Both teams are well set up.
- GadesnSens

Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt. - Mark Twain

Forwards
Bobby Ryan - $5.1 million
Milan Michalek - $4 million
Kyle Turris - $3.5 million
Clarke MacArthur - $3.25 million
David Legwand - $3 million
Colin Greening - $2.65 million
Chris Neil - $1.9 million
Zack Smith - $1,887,500
Erik Condra - $1.25 million
Mika Zibanejad - $894,167
Alex Chiasson - $866,667
Mike Hoffman - $750,000
Mark Stone - $603,333

Defence
Erik Karlsson - $6.5 million
Jared Cowen - $3.1 million
Marc Methot - $3.0 million
Chris Phillips - $2.5 million
Patrick Wiercioch - $2 million
Eric Gryba - $1.25 million
Cody Ceci - $894,167
Mark Borowiecki - $575,000

Goaltending
Craig Anderson - $3,187,500
Robin Lehner - $2.25 million

Potential Trade Targets due to excess players in that position

According to almost any statistic, he is absolutely a defensive beast.

plus/minus, goal differential, corsi, you name it - he was among the better players league-wide.
- TommyDeVito

http://stats.hockeyanalys...&sort=icorsi&sortdir=DESC

hmm

According to almost any statistic, he is absolutely a defensive beast.

plus/minus, goal differential, corsi, you name it - he was among the better players league-wide.
- TommyDeVito

that said i doubt turris will put up the same point production as kessel....i wouldnt be shocked to see him be pretty consistent 55-65 though.

anyways this is all silly...i really like Turris and Mac...but Kessel is also super awesome..so whatever...everyone is happy cuz both teams have good players they both like

Perhaps, but you don't need superstars to win games, what you need are players with better puck possession, for which Turris and Macarthur are some of the best in the league. Watch Turris slowly develop into a top tier talent of the NHL in the next few years. So potential wise, its a landslide victory to Turris/Mac combo.
- PtotheY

Not true. The canucks were one of the top teams in puck possession last season and still miss the playoffs.

A team needs superstars to win. Plain and simple.

yeah, 36th in the league.

in the league.

On a team that played as poorly defensively as Ottawa did last season.

Thanks for looking that up, though.

http://stats.hockeyanalysis.com/ratings.php?disp=1&db=201314&sit=5v5&pos=forwards&minutes=500&teamid=0&type=individual&sort=icorsi&sortdir=DESC

hmm
- Feeling Glucky?

honestly with how horrifically bad the sens were on the back end last season...36th in the whole league is pretty amazing...

yeah, 36th in the league.

in the league.

On a team that played as poorly defensively as Ottawa did last season.

Thanks for looking that up, though.
- TommyDeVito

Check a bit higher up the page

Santorelli + Winnik > Turris.

Obviously Turris is better than either, but those two will outproduce him at a fraction of the cost!

i dont even know whats happening here anymore...

Check a bit higher up the page
- Canada Cup

Hey, I'm not arguing the whole Turris > Kessel thing, I'm just saying that Turris is a defensive beast.

http://stats.hockeyanalysis.com/ratings.php?disp=1&db=201314&sit=5v5&pos=forwards&minutes=500&teamid=0&type=individual&sort=icorsi&sortdir=DESC

hmm
- Feeling Glucky?

I found Turris! Had to use CTRL+F to find him, but he's there.

that said i doubt turris will put up the same point production as kessel....i wouldnt be shocked to see him be pretty consistent 55-65 though.

anyways this is all silly...i really like Turris and Mac...but Kessel is also super awesome..so whatever...everyone is happy cuz both teams have good players they both like
- TheMike12

Yup, I think Turris should be capable at putting up Kadri numbers too.

Check a bit higher up the page
- Canada Cup

like... #2...


And I don't think anyone is calling the Leafs or Kessel "good" defensively.



None of the stats mentioned measure defensive acumen. Strong offensive play can outweigh weak defensive play in these types of stats.

I just came to browse, as the Leafs fans got me curious. Within 3 pages I have seen that part of MacArthur's game is to go to the corners and hit, he's a defensive beast and a top line player on most teams.

None of the above is true. He was a Leaf for long enough to see that quite clearly

Look, I'm glad he's working out in Sensland with Turris as your go-to duo, but can we at least TRY to have some semblance of reality in our player evaluation?

I just came to browse, as the Leafs fans got me curious. Within 3 pages I have seen that part of MacArthur's game is to go to the corners and hit, he's a defensive beast and a top line player on most teams.

None of the above is true. He was a Leaf for long enough to see that quite clearly

Look, I'm glad he's working out in Sensland with Turris as your go-to duo, but can we at least TRY to have some semblance of reality in our player evaluation?
- TheThrill

this whole board has gone completely off the rails...