bait 'em and watch the magic

I'm surprised Prock hasn't made an appearance

ohhhhh - you were seriously in tune with Glucky's thinking


so you'd rather have a great winger by himself - with no-one to pass to him, than a really good combination...... that's a great way to build a team

and before you jump all over me in some sort of anti-Sens rant, remember I admitted that Bosak/Kessel is a really good combo. I was only commenting on the theory that one great player is better to have than two really good players that work great together
- GadesnSens

In this particular case, yes. Kessel's passing ability is as good as his shot. There's a reason he quarterbacks the Leafs power play from the half wall. A true pass first centreman would help him of course, but he doesn't need one to produce.

Top Five:

Toewes
Karlsson
Quick
Doughty
Crosby

Spatso is a little crazy. He actually gives us Sens fans a bad name for some of the ideas he has. It's ridiculous. Hey, I'd love to have Turris become an effective player like Bergeron. But, if that happens Turris will still need to grow a lot. I'm not saying it can't happen but it's just not a good comparable at the moment.

Anyway, if we are talking centre depth between the Leafs and Sens then I think the Sens have the edge over the Leafs. Turris > Bozak, Zibanejad <= Kadri, Legwand > Holland, Smith > Kontiola.

If we are comparing Karlsson to Kessel well both have very similar pros and cons. Both are beasts in the offensive zone with or without the puck. In the defensive zone with the puck Kessel is OK but without the puck is horrible. Karlsson in his defensive zone is amazing with the puck and horrible without it. In the neutral zone both are dynamic with the puck and without the puck I'd give the edge to Kessel because he's closer to the blue line and draws more attention. But, then when you compare which plays more that's obviously Karlsson and he counts less against the cap. That last part is only more important when your team spends to the cap and needs to make every dollar work. So that part is a wash since Eugene is a cheap bum.
- riceroni

I said very clearly that Bergeron is what Turris aspires to be when he fully grows up. I also said if you compare Bergeron and Turris' numbers from last year, especially goal differential you will see Turris had a very good year.

I believe if Turris played for the Bruins last year he would have had similar year end numbers to Bergeron. This is not rocket science. So, how does a player end up being so far ahead of the other top center (Spezza) in goal differential? Turris is one of the best 200' centers in the NHL. Put him on any contending team (Blackhawks) and he would be seen for the incredibly responsible player that he is.

Shame on you and other Sens fans who have not grasped just how good a deal Murray pulled off when he traded for him.

I said very clearly that Bergeron is what Turris aspires to be when he fully grows up. I also said if you compare Bergeron and Turris' numbers from last year, especially goal differential you will see Turris had a very good year.

I believe if Turris played for the Bruins last year he would have had similar year end numbers to Bergeron. This is not rocket science. So, how does a player end up being so far ahead of the other top center (Spezza) in goal differential? Turris is one of the best 200' centers in the NHL. Put him on any contending team (Blackhawks) and he would be seen for the incredibly responsible player that he is.

Shame on you and other Sens fans who have not grasped just how good a deal Murray pulled off when he traded for him.
- spatso

I'm not saying Turris is a scrub. I think he's a great player. What he is though is a 2nd line centre. No more and no less. And, that's great! It was a great trade to get him. But, need a lot more than Turris to be a good team.

I said very clearly that Bergeron is what Turris aspires to be when he fully grows up. I also said if you compare Bergeron and Turris' numbers from last year, especially goal differential you will see Turris had a very good year.

I believe if Turris played for the Bruins last year he would have had similar year end numbers to Bergeron. This is not rocket science. So, how does a player end up being so far ahead of the other top center (Spezza) in goal differential? Turris is one of the best 200' centers in the NHL. Put him on any contending team (Blackhawks) and he would be seen for the incredibly responsible player that he is.

Shame on you and other Sens fans who have not grasped just how good a deal Murray pulled off when he traded for him.
- spatso

Can you provide the stats you have been quoting in this thread, or at least a link to a site that will have them?

I'm not saying Turris is a scrub. I think he's a great player. What he is though is a 2nd line centre. No more and no less. And, that's great! It was a great trade to get him. But, need a lot more than Turris to be a good team.
- riceroni

If you look back before all this started that my point.

I'm not saying Turris is a scrub. I think he's a great player. What he is though is a 2nd line centre. No more and no less. And, that's great! It was a great trade to get him. But, need a lot more than Turris to be a good team.
- riceroni

Bergeron is a second line center. What is wrong with you? Bergeron is not a great player because of his offensive production. He is a great player because of his 200' play.

Can you provide the stats you have been quoting in this thread, or at least a link to a site that will have them?
- BetterCallSaul

?

You say you love kessel but it shows you don't. He's a top five player

in the league IMO
- kessellover69

top 5? come on man, thats almost as ridiculous as saying mac + turris > kessel.

crosby, malkin, stamkos, toews, giroux, kopitar, getzlaf, datsyuk, ovechkin.....and that's only forwards.

kessel is s great playet but no chance he's top 5

?
- spatso

I guess that's a no?

top 5? come on man, thats almost as ridiculous as saying mac + turris > kessel.

crosby, malkin, stamkos, toews, giroux, kopitar, getzlaf, datsyuk, ovechkin.....and that's only forwards.

kessel is s great playet but no chance he's top 5
- sensarmy_11

6th, 8th, and 6th in scoring the last 3 years. If he's not top 5 he's pretty damn close.

And those were on lousy leafs teams playing with Bozak. Imagine if he had a real centre.

Kessel is elite, I don't care what team you cheer for, if you can't see it, you're blind.

ottawa has a team?

top 5? come on man, thats almost as ridiculous as saying mac + turris > kessel.

crosby, malkin, stamkos, toews, giroux, kopitar, getzlaf, datsyuk, ovechkin.....and that's only forwards.

kessel is s great playet but no chance he's top 5
- sensarmy_11

You forgot KT

Agreed

.... come on man, thats almost as ridiculous as saying mac + turris > kessel.

I fail to see what the issue is with this statement. The point I was trying to make was that I would rather have them that Kessel by himself without a decent centre.....

in other words Turris/MacArthur is better say a fictional Jesse Winchester/Kessel....

and again I reiterate that the Bozak/Kessel combo is very good. Both top lines for these two teams are very comparable.

Bozak isn't even a decent center. The fact you think Kessel and Bozak is a good combo shows why Kessel is an amazing player.

Kessel>>>>>Turris

Bozak isn't even a decent center. The fact you think Kessel and Bozak is a good combo shows why Kessel is an amazing player.
- ClarksonDavid

now I am somewhat of an outside observer, but did they not try Kessel with other centres and his production dropped?

I agree that Bozak isn't 'even a decent centre', but for whatever reason he and Kessel click whereas Kessel and 'player x' don't as much???? a weird phenomenon, but it's what I recall seeing.

Bozak isn't even a decent center. The fact you think Kessel and Bozak is a good combo shows why Kessel is an amazing player.
- ClarksonDavid

This x1000

Kessel has played with Bozak his whole career. And your wrong because Kessel's stats withought Bozak are better. The only two other centers he's played with has been Grabo and Kadri for like 5 games each and I believe his stats were better.

is scoring all that matters? if it does, then you could argue that toews and kopitar might not even be in the top 10, and also, it means that kessel is better than every d-man in the league.

you could make an argument that he's a top 5 offensive player in the leauge, but even that isn't a slam dunk.

he's absolutely NOT a top 5 player in the nhl

now I am somewhat of an outside observer, but did they not try Kessel with other centres and his production dropped?

I agree that Bozak isn't 'even a decent centre', but for whatever reason he and Kessel click whereas Kessel and 'player x' don't as much???? a weird phenomenon, but it's what I recall seeing.
- GadesnSens

Funny enough the guy leafs hired yesterday Cam Charron wrote on article on how false it is that they have chemistry I think he used Garbo as an example and Kadri and Kessel were fine together last year.

is scoring all that matters? if it does, then you could argue that toews and kopitar might not even be in the top 10, and also, it means that kessel is better than every d-man in the league.

you could make an argument that he's a top 5 offensive player in the leauge, but even that isn't a slam dunk.

he's absolutely NOT a top 5 player in the nhl
- sensarmy_11

No scoring isn't all that matters but when you are significantly better in all offensive catagory then it makes up for the loss of defense. And gifted offensive players don't grow on trees.

Turris will be in the same category as Kessel? Say what? Only Giroux has more points than Kessel the past 3 seasons.