A player with zero grit can be totally useless, sure.

But with players like Akeson or Raffl who are not nearly as gritty as Rinaldo, their skill level with the puck means the team is not constantly being outshot and outscored when they are on the ice. Not to mention all the penalties Rinaldo grits out.
- Feanor

Akeson is a defensive liability, who has zero physicality to his game. These type of players usually dont thrive with 4th line minutes.

4th liners need to bring something special with their game to be effective with limited minutes. Adam Hall was a great example. 59% on draws, PK1 and an occasional scrap when the team was down. grit

He played seven tough playoff games without being a defensive liability. Players like Rosehill, Rinaldo and Hall were the defensive liabilities on this team last year.

Rosehill GF% of 23
Rinaldo GF% of 29
Hall GF% of 30

You couldn't be more wrong. Every player on a team has his role. I wouldn't exactly call Simmonds, Hartnell or Knuble skilled guys. They're just willing to do the things you don't want a skilled guy to do or can't do.
- SuperSchennBros

We still have Simmonds. If this just a rehashing of the argument that trading Hartnell for Umberger was a mistake?

I'm holding out for Domi and Tiger Williams!
- BiggE

I used to really love Domi for taking on every tough guy
in the league and coming away with a smile.

Never has my tune changed quicker than it did with
him after the Burt incident.

A player with zero grit can be totally useless, sure.

But with players like Akeson or Raffl who are not nearly as gritty as Rinaldo, their skill level with the puck means the team is not constantly being outshot and outscored when they are on the ice. Not to mention all the penalties Rinaldo grits out.
- Feanor

The Flyers calling card has been toughness and grit since like the late 60's, early 70's. I'd say it's worked out for them pretty nicely.

I used to really love Domi for taking on every tough guy
in the league and coming away with a smile.

Never has my tune changed quicker than it did with
him after the Burt incident.
- jmatchett383

yeah, good call

He played seven tough playoff games without being a defensive liability. Players like Rosehill and Rinaldo were the defensive liabilities on this team last year.

Rosehill GF% of 23
Rinaldo GF% of 29



We still have Simmonds. If this just a rehashing of the argument that trading Hartnell for Umberger being a mistake?
- Feanor

I also named Mike Knuble. This is me simply not ignoring certain players who may not have skill who have been successful here. Ian Laperriere was apart of the last time we had a decent fourth line and knew what it took to win.

The Flyers calling card has been toughness and grit since like the late 60's, early 70's. I'd say it's worked out for them pretty nicely.
- SuperSchennBros

The key is balance:
A top line that can score while not being a defensive liability
2nd and 3rd lines that can also score and can be matched up against anyone
A 4th line that can check, chip in the occasional goal and add physicality without taking bad penalties.

Add to that a deep D corps with a legit top pair and a quality starting goalie and you get yourself a strong cup contender.

The Flyers aren't there yet, but I feel they are moving in the right direction

Akeson is a defensive liability, who has zero physicality to his game. These type of players usually dont thrive with 4th line minutes.

4th liners need to bring something special with their game to be effective with limited minutes. Adam Hall was a great example. 59% on draws, PK1 and an occasional scrap when the team was down. grit
- acd513

Despite the reports I've read, Akeson has played just fine
(in limited time) without the puck. But I'd say the best
use if his skills is a top-9 role.

Adam Hall was, sadly, a dimr a dozen player. Players like
Hall can be found pretty easily. It's the players like Lappy
and pre-injury Betts who are the gems.

I also named Mike Knuble. This is me simply not ignoring certain players who may not have skill who have been successful here. Ian Laperriere was apart of the last time we had a decent fourth line and knew what it took to win.
- SuperSchennBros

Any player who does "not have skill" would never score 30+ goals in the NHL. Knuble was actually a very skilled player who simply did not skate well. But he was a very smart player who was a fantastic compliment for several team's top lines.

Fist!!!
- Duane B

Any player who does "not have skill" would never score 30+ goals in the NHL. Knuble was actually a very skilled player who simply did not skate well. But he was a very smart player who was a fantastic compliment for several team's top lines.
- jmatchett383

Ian Laperriere was a consistent 20 point scorer with a career high of 45. He had way more skill than any 4th liner the Flyers played last year. Except, hopefully, Raffl.

Despite the reports I've read, Akeson has played just fine
(in limited time) without the puck. But I'd say the best
use if his skills is a top-9 role.

Adam Hall was, sadly, a dimr a dozen player. Players like
Hall can be found pretty easily. It's the players like Lappy
and pre-injury Betts who are the gems.
- jmatchett383

Betts and Lappy are sorely missed. What happened to Powe? I thought he might become a good mix of both players.

The Flyers calling card has been toughness and grit since like the late 60's, early 70's. I'd say it's worked out for them pretty nicely.
- SuperSchennBros

Agreed. We've all been spoiled with Cups these last 39 seasons. Keep going with what's been working so well.

Any player who does "not have skill" would never score 30+ goals in the NHL. Knuble was actually a very skilled player who simply did not skate well. But he was a very smart player who was a fantastic compliment for several team's top lines.
- jmatchett383

It never hurts to be able to stand in front of the net and at times have a puck ricochet off your ass.

Betts and Lappy are sorely missed. What happened to Powe? I thought he might become a good mix of both players.
- SuperSchennBros

Powe's ceiling was what he was, and he thought (as did Minnesota) that he could be more...and that's why he signed an AHL-only deal.

Any player who does "not have skill" would never score 30+ goals in the NHL. Knuble was actually a very skilled player who simply did not skate well. But he was a very smart player who was a fantastic compliment for several team's top lines.
- jmatchett383

Exactly

Different players, have different skills: some skate and carry the puck well, some are great playmakers and have excellent hockey sense, some, like Simmonds and Knuble, have a nose for the net, and good hands in tight, some guys can physically dominate.

Guys that can do it all; Gordie Howe, Lindros (in his prime), Mario Lemieux, those guys just don't come around often.

It never hurts to be able to stand in front of the net and at times have a puck ricochet off your ass.
- SuperSchennBros

No it doesn't. But that doesn't mean you don't have skill. Unless John LeClair and Thomas Holmstrom had none either.

Agreed. We've all been spoiled with Cups these last 39 seasons. Keep going with what's been working so well.
- jmatchett383

Just think if we got extra grit by trading Read for Kassian and MDZ for Engelland. We would surely double the numbers of cups won in the last 39 years by the end of this decade. Maybe triple.

The key is balance:
A top line that can score while not being a defensive liability
2nd and 3rd lines that can also score and can be matched up against anyone
A 4th line that can check, chip in the occasional goal and add physicality without taking bad penalties.

Add to that a deep D corps with a legit top pair and a quality starting goalie and you get yourself a strong cup contender.

The Flyers aren't there yet, but I feel they are moving in the right direction
- BiggE

Nice post.

I'll take the quiet, resolute, competitive grit that guys like Toews and Bergeron bring over the kind that lands the team in hot water time and time again.

Agreed. We've all been spoiled with Cups these last 39 seasons. Keep going with what's been working so well.
- jmatchett383

The Flyers are one of the more winning franchise in the league. How about we scout when the next Sidney Crosby is set to be drafted and have the team not show up to the rink until we've drafted him.

No it doesn't. But that doesn't mean you don't have skill. Unless John LeClair and Thomas Holmstrom had none either.
- jmatchett383

Anyone who thinks that someone can score 30 goals in an NHL season by just standing in front of the net and having pucks bounce in off of them is simply clueless

The Flyers are one of the more winning franchise in the league. How about we scout when the next Sidney Crosby is set to be drafted and have the team not show up to the rink until we've drafted him.
- SuperSchennBros

I dont care about winning %. I'd much rather them have one Cup in the last decade and have lows like Carolina that. Constantly be pretty good but never win.

He played seven tough playoff games without being a defensive liability. Players like Rosehill, Rinaldo and Hall were the defensive liabilities on this team last year.

Rosehill GF% of 23
Rinaldo GF% of 29
Hall GF% of 30




- Feanor

In order for that to be a valid comparison, two things would have to happen. One the sample size would have to be much bigger. And two, Akeson would have to play with the same players, in the same situations as Rosehill, Rinaldo, and Hall did.

No it doesn't. But that doesn't mean you don't have skill. Unless John LeClair and Thomas Holmstrom had none either.
- jmatchett383

Same role, wide game in skill levels between the players.