...said Alexandre Daigle, Pat Falloon, Pavel Brendl and Nikolay Zherdev in unison .
- bmeltzer

And they were so good the NHL had to keep them out of the league to keep the teams fair

Clifford played four seasons and hasn't broke 14 pts. I doubt the upside is still there... I don't want a guy to "play responsible" and just waste time until Giroux gets back on the ice. I want somebody who will keep the stress up (maybe a different type of stress than Giroux puts on, but you can't have 4 lines of Giroux).
- leon neon

Rinaldo and Rosehill and put stress on their own team by giving up goals and penalties at an alarming rate while doing almost nothing offensively.

Rinaldo and Rosehill and put stress on their own team by giving up goals and penalties at an alarming rate while doing almost nothing offensively.
- Feanor

'cuz...

We already have a 7th dman signed to a one year, $1.25 million deal. Only a dumbass would want to get another one who's signed for three years at $2.9 million.
- Feanor

Engelland's contract is horrendous. Not sure why you keep bringing it up.

Engelland's contract is horrendous. Not sure why you keep bringing it up.
- acd513

Cause you said trading MDZ for him would be a great idea.

Rinaldo and Rosehill and put stress on their own team by giving up goals and penalties at an alarming rate while doing almost nothing offensively.
- Feanor

Serious question. What is the percentage of goals give up by the team that was directly Rinaldo and Rosehill's fault?

Serious question. What is the percentage of goals give up by the team that was directly Rinaldo and Rosehill's fault?
- SuperSchennBros

Wont be a serious response, but I wonder what the opposite is.

Players like that to me are just warm bodies that are irrelevant to the team's overall success. Not acceptable in 'good destination' market with unlimited cash.

I'd agree. Simmonds is not a player you build around. He's a nice compliment piece. He's the sour cream to a taco.
- Streit2ThePoint

I love this quote. Keep in mind that I'm not putting down a player like Simmonds, he's easily my favourite player on the team along side Bryaden Schenn, Vincent Lecavalier (more so because of what he was) and Ray Emery.

I love this quote. Keep in mind that I'm not putting down a player like Simmonds, he's easily my favourite player on the team along side Bryaden Schenn, Vincent Lecavalier (more so because of what he was) and Ray Emery.
- SuperSchennBros

You don't say.

Cause you said trading MDZ for him would be a great idea.
- Feanor

Speaking of Michael Del Zotto, I really do like the Steve Mason comparisons in terms of getting his career back on track. I think his ceiling could be close to Mark Streit's and I'm actually hoping he could replace Streit someday. As of right now we can't expect much from Del Zotto. He's our 6th defenseman who could easily be scratched his he doesn't play well. To me, although he's not signed to a tryout contract, I do view him as trying out.

Cause you said trading MDZ for him would be a great idea.
- Feanor

You drew it up as a "crazy" trade. Comparing it to Read for Kassian. I pointed out that MDZ wouldn't be employed right now if Kimmo didn't almost die, whereas most teams would take Engelland on their roster.

You continuously bring up Engellands ridiculous contract, but you threw him into the debate because of his goonish tendancies, not cap hit.

For somebody who dislikes physical play and fighting, it's weird that you are a Flyers fan.

You don't say.
- flyer_nutter

Speaking of skill, I'm gonna throw a few names out there. Zac Rinaldo, Claude Giroux, Nicolas Grossmann, Vincent Lecavalier and Scott Hartnell. Who is considered skilled here? The way we speak of someb of the players, I would assume only Giroux has skill.

You drew it up as a "crazy" trade. Comparing it to Read for Kassian. I pointed out that MDZ wouldn't be employed right now if Kimmo didn't almost die, whereas most teams would take Engelland on their roster.

You continuously bring up Engellands ridiculous contract, but you threw him into the debate because of his goonish tendancies, not cap hit.

For somebody who dislikes physical play and fighting, it's weird that you are a Flyers fan.
- acd513

It's an interesting debate. Derek Engelland was signed the day of free agency opening because a team had their pick and wanted him. Michael Del Zotto was signed due to a roster spot opening up because of injury. I suppose it depends on needs or a certain player isn't playing up to standards.

As of right now we can't expect much from Del Zotto. He's our 6th defenseman who could easily be scratched his he doesn't play well.
- SuperSchennBros

I'm not sure that it would be really easy for them to take him out of the lineup... it would leave Streit as the only guy who has any real point-presence left on the blueline. Coburn and AMac are decent transition initiators, but they're below-average in the o-zone, and useless on the PP.

Flyersrock was from Saskatchewan I think.
- flyer_nutter

I'm not sure that it would be really easy for them to take him out of the lineup... it would leave Streit as the only guy who has any real point-presence left on the blueline. Coburn and AMac are decent transition initiators, but they're below-average in the o-zone, and useless on the PP.
- Tomahawk

I do not disagree.

It's an interesting debate. Derek Engelland was signed the day of free agency opening because a team had their pick and wanted him...
- SuperSchennBros

Matt Walker was once signed on July 1 to a 4-year, multi-million dollar deal. Pick of the litter?

You drew it up as a "crazy" trade. Comparing it to Read for Kassian. I pointed out that MDZ wouldn't be employed right now if Kimmo didn't almost die, whereas most teams would take Engelland on their roster.

You continuously bring up Engellands ridiculous contract, but you threw him into the debate because of his goonish tendancies, not cap hit.

For somebody who dislikes physical play and fighting, it's weird that you are a Flyers fan.
- acd513

Most teams have a better #6 defensemen than Engelland. He's awful. When you trade for a player the contract comes with him. You said trading MDZ for Engelland would be great, despite this fact, and despite the fact we already have better versions of Engelland in Grossmann and LSchenn.

And I never once said I disliked fighting or physical play. Kindly refrain from putting words in my mouth as a substitute for making sound arguments.

I'm not sure that it would be really easy for them to take him out of the lineup... it would leave Streit as the only guy who has any real point-presence left on the blueline. Coburn and AMac are decent transition initiators, but they're below-average in the o-zone, and useless on the PP.
- Tomahawk

Stating MacDonald is useless on the PP is hyperbole. He's capable as a 2nd unit PP point defenseman. He also is going to improve the Flyers transition game.

Matt Walker was once signed on July 1 to a 4-year, multi-million dollar deal. Pick of the litter?
- Tomahawk

Derek Engelland's numbers suggest he's a lot better then Matt Walker.

Most teams have a better #6 defensemen than Engelland. He's awful. When you trade for a player the contract comes with him. You said trading MDZ for Engelland would be great, despite this fact, and despite the fact we already have better versions of Engelland in Grossmann and LSchenn.

And I never once said I disliked fighting or physical play. Kindly refrain from putting words in my mouth as a substitute for making sound arguments.
- Feanor

I don't think Derek Engelland is nearly as bad as you suggest but I agree he isn't a fit here...though I'd take Engelland over Nick Schulze.

After 7 pages of this it's apparent, at least to me, that we really need the season to get started already!

And with that, I shall begin the weekends drinking.

Clifford played four seasons and hasn't broke 14 pts. I doubt the upside is still there... I don't want a guy to "play responsible" and just waste time until Giroux gets back on the ice. I want somebody who will keep the stress up (maybe a different type of stress than Giroux puts on, but you can't have 4 lines of Giroux).

One thing that I'm not sure of - regarding Rinaldo. What is the coaching staff telling him? Are they telling him to go and play on the edge and stir things up, or are they telling him to play responsible. You've got to believe that if Rinaldo wasn't listening to the coaching staff that he would have been traded/demoted. So, I believe he is following orders to play on the edge. Rinaldo at 24 is still learning the position, and trying to figure out where that edge is... I think he played well for the most part last year. I've seen situations were he got penalties from his reputation. I say kept'em and let him hone his "skills".
- leon neon

What I'm looking for in a 4th line is guys who can effectively play 8-10 minutes a night without hurting the team with dumb penalties & an inability to play solid defense. Neither Rinaldo or Rosehill do that. Perhaps the Flyers like Wildman Zac because a segment if fans confuse heart and stupidity

Engelland might be the best pound for pound fighter in the NHL. If fighter were outlawed tomorrow, he's likely not a top 6 defenseman for anyone. His contract is astoundingly bad