After 7 pages of this it's apparent, at least to me, that we really need the season to get started already!

And with that, I shall begin the weekends drinking.
- BiggE

Begin? I guess I'm winning. If you ain't first, you last

What I'm looking for in a 4th line is guys who can effectively play 8-10 minutes a night without hurting the team with dumb penalties & an inability to play solid defense. Neither Rinaldo or Rosehill do that. Perhaps the Flyers like Wildman Zac because a segment if fans confuse heart and stupidity
- Jsaquella

There really is no need to insult any element of the fanbase if they see a player differently. I agree that the Flyers need players like Rinaldo to play smarter hockey. Rinaldo needs to do that if he expects to have a long NHl career. Not sure why Rosehill keeps being brought up. He's a 13th forward. He played 34 games last season, which is less then half the season.

Begin? I guess I'm winning. If you ain't first, you last
- PhillySportsGuy

Well then you're losing.

Tough muffins.

Well then you're losing.

Tough muffins.
- Giroux_Is_God

I started last night while watching Temple beat an SEC team!

What I'm looking for in a 4th line is guys who can effectively play 8-10 minutes a night without hurting the team with dumb penalties & an inability to play solid defense. Neither Rinaldo or Rosehill do that. Perhaps the Flyers like Wildman Zac because a segment if fans confuse heart and stupidity
- Jsaquella

Agreed, the successful 4th liners in Flyers history could all take a semi regular shift without hurting the club and usually brought one or two strong attributes to the table

Terry Crisp
Excellent defensive forward and solid on the PK

Bob Kelly
Good energy player, decent skills, had a knack for scoring big, timely goals

Dave Brown
Tough as nails and could get you 5 or 6 goals while checking responsibly

Lindsay Carson
Solid 2-way guy, could play wing or center and had some grit

Craig Berube
Another tough guy who wouldn't hurt you defensively

Kent Manderville
Decent wheels, good defensively and could kill penalties

Craig MacTavish
Excellent on draws and on the PK, could match up against skilled centers in a checking role.

Blair Betts
Very good penalty killer and strong on faceoffs

Ian Lapierierre
Ultimate team player, great leader, awesome on the pk and could chip in some offense now and then.

Adam Hall
Excellent on faceoffs and solid on the PK. Could also drop the gloves when needed.

On the other hand, you have:

Zac Rinaldo
Throws big hits, but takes more penalties than he draws and has no offense in his game, nor is he good defensively.

Jay Rosehill
Can skate up and down his wing and fight, but like Rinaldo, he brings no skill or much defensive awareness to the table.

Basically each and every guy in the first group could take a shift or 2 in the 3rd period of a tight game and not hurt you. On the other hand, in the 3rd period of a tied game, do you really think either Rinaldo or Rosehill is going to get a single shift?

Begin? I guess I'm winning. If you ain't first, you last
- PhillySportsGuy

Damn you meddling kids!!

Agreed, the successful 4th liners in Flyers history could all take a semi regular shift without hurting the club and usually brought one or two strong attributes to the table

Terry Crisp
Excellent defensive forward and solid on the PK

Bob Kelly
Good energy player, decent skills, had a knack for scoring big, timely goals

Dave Brown
Tough as nails and could get you 5 or 6 goals while checking responsibly

Lindsay Carson
Solid 2-way guy, could play wing or center and had some grit

Craig Berube
Another tough guy who wouldn't hurt you defensively

Kent Manderville
Decent wheels, good defensively and could kill penalties

Craig MacTavish
Excellent on draws and on the PK, could match up against skilled centers in a checking role.

Blair Betts
Very good penalty killer and strong on faceoffs

Ian Lapierierre
Ultimate team player, great leader, awesome on the pk and could chip in some offense now and then.

Adam Hall
Excellent on faceoffs and solid on the PK. Could also drop the gloves when needed.

On the other hand, you have:

Zac Rinaldo
Throws big hits, but takes more penalties than he draws and has no offense in his game, nor is he good defensively.

Jay Rosehill
Can skate up and down his wing and fight, but like Rinaldo, he brings no skill or much defensive awareness to the table.

Basically each and every guy in the first group could take a shift or 2 in the 3rd period of a tight game and not hurt you. On the other hand, in the 3rd period of a tied game, do you really think either Rinaldo or Rosehill is going to get a single shift?
- BiggE

You seem to be a very thorough kind of man with all of these lists Ive seen. Your wife must be a very satisfied woman.

Fist!!!
- Duane B

DUANE!!!!!!!!

I started last night while watching Temple beat an SEC team!
- PhillySportsGuy

When I first saw that score last night, I thought it was a misprint. Who'd a thunk it?

You seem to be a very thorough kind of man with all of these lists Ive seen. Your wife must be a very satisfied woman.

- flyer_nutter

After 22 years, her next complaint will be her first if you know what I mean!

Most teams have a better #6 defensemen than Engelland. He's awful. When you trade for a player the contract comes with him. You said trading MDZ for Engelland would be great, despite this fact, and despite the fact we already have better versions of Engelland in Grossmann and LSchenn.

And I never once said I disliked fighting or physical play. Kindly refrain from putting words in my mouth as a substitute for making sound arguments.
- Feanor

My bust. The discussion of White's injury taking away grit from the 4th line caused you to say something like skill is better than grit.

I just see it as there is only so much icetime to go around. the fourth line of most succesfull NHL teams has more grit than skill.

My bust. The discussion of White's injury taking away grit from the 4th line caused you to say something like skill is better than grit.

I just see it as there is only so much icetime to go around. the fourth line of most succesfull NHL teams has more grit than skill.
- acd513

If only there was a way to somehow fashion a player. That could play with some skill AND grit.

Nikolai Zherdev, where are thou!

Kent Manderville
Decent wheels, good defensively and could kill penalties


- BiggE

He could also pick the corner when he had an open shot between the dots.



Unfortunately, when I say "corner", I wasn't referring to the net. I was being literal.

After 7 pages of this it's apparent, at least to me, that we really need the season to get started already!

And with that, I shall begin the weekends drinking.
- BiggE

nevermind

nevermind
- mayorofangrytown

Agreed, the successful 4th liners in Flyers history could all take a semi regular shift without hurting the club and usually brought one or two strong attributes to the table

Terry Crisp
Excellent defensive forward and solid on the PK

Bob Kelly
Good energy player, decent skills, had a knack for scoring big, timely goals

Dave Brown
Tough as nails and could get you 5 or 6 goals while checking responsibly

Lindsay Carson
Solid 2-way guy, could play wing or center and had some grit

Craig Berube
Another tough guy who wouldn't hurt you defensively

Kent Manderville
Decent wheels, good defensively and could kill penalties

Craig MacTavish
Excellent on draws and on the PK, could match up against skilled centers in a checking role.

Blair Betts
Very good penalty killer and strong on faceoffs

Ian Lapierierre
Ultimate team player, great leader, awesome on the pk and could chip in some offense now and then.

Adam Hall
Excellent on faceoffs and solid on the PK. Could also drop the gloves when needed.

On the other hand, you have:

Zac Rinaldo
Throws big hits, but takes more penalties than he draws and has no offense in his game, nor is he good defensively.

Jay Rosehill
Can skate up and down his wing and fight, but like Rinaldo, he brings no skill or much defensive awareness to the table.

Basically each and every guy in the first group could take a shift or 2 in the 3rd period of a tight game and not hurt you. On the other hand, in the 3rd period of a tied game, do you really think either Rinaldo or Rosehill is going to get a single shift?
- BiggE

Great list!

Arron Asham spent limited time in the top 9, but he was also a succesful 4th line guy who could provide some offense and was arguably the best MW in the league from 2008-2010

Agreed, the successful 4th liners in Flyers history could all take a semi regular shift without hurting the club and usually brought one or two strong attributes to the table

Terry Crisp
Excellent defensive forward and solid on the PK

Bob Kelly
Good energy player, decent skills, had a knack for scoring big, timely goals

Dave Brown
Tough as nails and could get you 5 or 6 goals while checking responsibly

Lindsay Carson
Solid 2-way guy, could play wing or center and had some grit

Craig Berube
Another tough guy who wouldn't hurt you defensively

Kent Manderville
Decent wheels, good defensively and could kill penalties

Craig MacTavish
Excellent on draws and on the PK, could match up against skilled centers in a checking role.

Blair Betts
Very good penalty killer and strong on faceoffs

Ian Lapierierre
Ultimate team player, great leader, awesome on the pk and could chip in some offense now and then.

Adam Hall
Excellent on faceoffs and solid on the PK. Could also drop the gloves when needed.
- BiggE

No Jody "Regular Shift" Shelley???

I just see it as there is only so much icetime to go around. the fourth line of most succesfull NHL teams has more grit than skill.
- acd513

I think what he was referring to was requisite/baseline NHL skill (and sense) to get basic tasks done.

Not the dipsidoodle, end-to-end, backhand high cheese kind.

When I first saw that score last night, I thought it was a misprint. Who'd a thunk it?
- BiggE

I watched the whole game. It was amazing

Agreed, the successful 4th liners in Flyers history could all take a semi regular shift without hurting the club and usually brought one or two strong attributes to the table

Terry Crisp
Excellent defensive forward and solid on the PK

Bob Kelly
Good energy player, decent skills, had a knack for scoring big, timely goals

Dave Brown
Tough as nails and could get you 5 or 6 goals while checking responsibly

Lindsay Carson
Solid 2-way guy, could play wing or center and had some grit

Craig Berube
Another tough guy who wouldn't hurt you defensively

Kent Manderville
Decent wheels, good defensively and could kill penalties

Craig MacTavish
Excellent on draws and on the PK, could match up against skilled centers in a checking role.

Blair Betts
Very good penalty killer and strong on faceoffs

Ian Lapierierre
Ultimate team player, great leader, awesome on the pk and could chip in some offense now and then.

Adam Hall
Excellent on faceoffs and solid on the PK. Could also drop the gloves when needed.

On the other hand, you have:

Zac Rinaldo
Throws big hits, but takes more penalties than he draws and has no offense in his game, nor is he good defensively.

Jay Rosehill
Can skate up and down his wing and fight, but like Rinaldo, he brings no skill or much defensive awareness to the table.

Basically each and every guy in the first group could take a shift or 2 in the 3rd period of a tight game and not hurt you. On the other hand, in the 3rd period of a tied game, do you really think either Rinaldo or Rosehill is going to get a single shift?
- BiggE

Donald Brashear wasn't just an enforcer. He was on successful checking roles with Keith Primeau and Sami Kapanen. Heck if the two PP units were unsuccessful within two minutes, Brashear was plopped in front of the net in what I describe as the third PP unit.

I thought Arron Asham was an underrate player for skill, fighting and grit. I felt he could play.

Paul Ranheim I felt fit well with Kent Manderville. The same way Betts and Lappy/Powe seem to fit.

We've been lucky as far as bottom six players go. I would go with Jimmy Dowd over Adam Hall.

I think what he was referring to was requisite/baseline NHL skill (and sense) to get basic tasks done.

Not the dipsidoodle, end-to-end, backhand high cheese kind.
- Tomahawk

I think this is the first time I've ever seen "dipsidoodle" spelled out

Anchorage has basically the same weather as Chicago, except it's much darker during the winter. North of here is cold as (frank) though
- wilsonecho91

That's really (frank)ing crazy

I started last night while watching Temple beat an SEC team!
- PhillySportsGuy

I started at 9 this morning.

Guess I was wrong!

I started at 9 this morning.

Guess I was wrong!
- Giroux_Is_God

Its not who starts first, but who is still standing last!

Its not who starts first, but who is still standing last!
- BiggE

Cue: Elton John