Couts regressed two years ago and I didn't think that was a lost cause either. Watch his interviews, think about why coaches like him, and watch the effort he puts into every shift. He may stagnate, but it won't be because of a lack of effort on his part.
- aflyerpower8

Sean Couturier also is a former QMJHL scoring leader and was an elite PKer by the end of his first season. So even if one part of his game stagnated, the rest of his game made him worthwhile.

At the same time, had anyone said, "It's a given he will improve because he wants to," I wouldn't have agreed.

Couts regressed two years ago and I didn't think that was a lost cause either. Watch his interviews, think about why coaches like him, and watch the effort he puts into every shift. He may stagnate, but it won't be because of a lack of effort on his part.
- aflyerpower8

Effort isn't going to give him hockey awareness. Couturier struggled as a 19 year old with very hard minutes and poor teammates. It's not the same situation as Rinaldo last season.

Effort isn't going to give him hockey awareness. Couturier struggled as a 19 year old with very hard minutes and poor teammates. It's not the same situation as Rinaldo last season.
- Feanor

So you're saying that, at 24 years old, I couldn't become an NHL superstar simply because I really wanted to? Nonsense.

I'm viewing it more from the angle that they say they want more discipline and then turn around and extend their most undisciplined player a year early, coming off a bad year.

Saying one thing & doing the opposite is not a good way to do business
- Jsaquella

They want more discipline in games. If he sees top-9 ice time (hell, even 4th line time) once the season starts and continues down last year's path, it'll be an issue - especially if he keeps getting shifts.

Hexy went and signed him. Now Berube has to show a little discipline of his own.

Effort isn't going to give him hockey awareness. Couturier struggled as a 19 year old with very hard minutes and poor teammates. It's not the same situation as Rinaldo last season.
- Feanor

That's the biggest issue and question that I have about Rinaldo. I think he has some raw physical skills that could be molded. But I don't see a natural hockey sense. Or if it is there, it's very low. Where as Couturier's hockey sense is off the charts.

They're making a two year commitment to a young player that they like, and feel has some potential. What it doesn't say is that they feel Rinaldo doesn't have to improve, or get better. Teams make future commitments to young players that had a down year all the time. There is not big message being sent that Rinaldo's regression last year was okay. Simply not the case, and really it's being overblown.
- MJL

He wasn't talking to you, go hit the showers

They want more discipline in games. If he sees top-9 ice time (hell, even 4th line time) once the season starts and continues down last year's path, it'll be an issue - especially if he keeps getting shifts.

Hexy went and signed him. Now Berube has to show a little discipline of his own.
- tangent_man

They way they kept throwing Downie out there and hoping over the last 2 1/2 months of the season, I'd say the chances are relatively low they'd bench Rinaldo short of him pooping all over Berube's desk.

Sean Couturier also is a former QMJHL scoring leader and was an elite PKer by the end of his first season. So even if one part of his game stagnated, the rest of his game made him worthwhile.

At the same time, had anyone said, "It's a given he will improve because he wants to," I wouldn't have agreed.
- jmatchett383

Its not the same sure, but I don't think you can argue that one season of regression means a player is on a downhill slope. Also, while desire may not equal results, no desire does equal no results. I think he will get better, but that is just a prediction based on the effort and desire I've seen.

He wasn't talking to you, go hit the showers
- coffee junkie

I'm sorry, I was under the impression that this is a public forum! And everyone who is a member is free to comment. How exactly does your post relate to Hockey?

They way they kept throwing Downie out there and hoping over the last 2 1/2 months of the season, I'd say the chances are relatively low they'd bench Rinaldo short of him pooping all over Berube's desk.
- jmatchett383

I'm just hoping to see the new 'discipline' mindset extended to behind the bench as well as on the ice. A guy can dream, right?

Its not the same sure, but I don't think you can argue that one season of regression means a player is on a downhill slope. Also, while desire may not equal results, no desire does equal no results. I think he will get better, but that is just a prediction based on the effort and desire I've seen.
- aflyerpower8

Once again, I never said one season or regression assures that you will regress further or stagnate. I simply said a season of regression illustrates that progression is not a given. That was a twist of my words.

And yes, if he has the desire to get better, and is willing to put in the effort, time, and self-control required, he has a chance of improving. But it's not guaranteed.

Once again, I never said one season or regression assures that you will regress further or stagnate. I simply said a season of regression illustrates that progression is not a given. That was a twist of my words.

And yes, if he has the desire to get better, and is willing to put in the effort, time, and self-control required, he has a chance of improving. But it's not guaranteed.
- jmatchett383

I think everyone agrees with that.

I'm just hoping to see the new 'discipline' mindset extended to behind the bench as well as on the ice. A guy can dream, right?
- tangent_man

I suppose. Until the government takes away our dream freedom.

- Tomahawk

That was so disappointing. Until that time we could honestly say as Flyers fans that Rinaldo had never been suspended for hurting another player, because while he jumped into a hit against Detroit to get his previous two game suspension, the other player's head was not touched and there was no injury.

I think everyone agrees with that.
- MJL

I would have thought so, too. But, well, here we are.

Once again, I never said one season or regression assures that you will regress further or stagnate. I simply said a season of regression illustrates that progression is not a given. That was a twist of my words.

And yes, if he has the desire to get better, and is willing to put in the effort, time, and self-control required, he has a chance of improving. But it's not guaranteed.
- jmatchett383

I wasn't trying to twist your words as much as say why I said my original statement about Couts.

That was so disappointing. Until that time we could honestly say as Flyers fans that Rinaldo had never been suspended for hurting another player, because while he jumped into a hit against Detroit to get his previous two game suspension, the other player's head was not touched and there was no injury.
- Feanor

The thing that I really didn't like about it was the circumstances. It was a 4-0 Flyers' lead against a last-place team on a kid who was in his first full season. Had it been on James Neal, Chris Neil, or any other cheap-shotting player who has a variation of "Neal" as his last name, I wouldn't mind as much.

I wasn't trying to twist your words as much as say why I said my original statement about Couts.
- aflyerpower8

Fair enough. But no, as to my stance, I'm simply saying that hard work and will to improve does not guarantee improvement.

Fair enough. But no, as to my stance, I'm simply saying that hard work and will to improve does not guarantee improvement.
- jmatchett383

Didn't Rinaldo say he was going to try to be a better player before last season, or was it the season before? I'll have to look for it, because that didn't exactly pan out.

Didn't Rinaldo say he was going to try to be a better player before last season, or was it the season before? I'll have to look for it, because that didn't exactly pan out.
- tangent_man

That's my point.

I want to be a professional hockey player. Ain't gonna happen.

I've been saying that this looks to be a good line.

Umberger-Lecavalier-Akeson.

Theres a mix of everything there. Vinny needs a playmaker and Akeson (while questionable) could potentially fill that role. Umberger adds size and a decent mix of offense/defense on the wing.
- GOA88

They want more discipline in games. If he sees top-9 ice time (hell, even 4th line time) once the season starts and continues down last year's path, it'll be an issue - especially if he keeps getting shifts.

Hexy went and signed him. Now Berube has to show a little discipline of his own.
- tangent_man

No argument there. But what I'm saying is that I has shown an inability to be disciplined within the structure of the system as well as taking too many penalties, over an extended period. I'd just be more tolerant had they waited until Rinaldo showed some positive progress

The thing that I really didn't like about it was the circumstances. It was a 4-0 Flyers' lead against a last-place team on a kid who was in his first full season. Had it been on James Neal, Chris Neil, or any other cheap-shotting player who has a variation of "Neal" as his last name, I wouldn't mind as much.
- jmatchett383

That's the weird/scary thing. Rinaldo wasn't going after someone in a grudge match against a rival that got out of hand. He just lost his mind for a second when the Flyers had a 4-0 lead. And it would have have been one of his best games of the season. Scored a goal, was +2, and was on track to play 10+ minutes.

He wasn't talking to you, go hit the showers
- coffee junkie

I honestly don't even read his posts. I see Darth Vader & I kind of glaze over it until the next post.

That's the weird/scary thing. Rinaldo wasn't going after someone in a grudge match against a rival that got out of hand. He just lost his mind for a second when the Flyers had a 4-0 lead. And it would have have been one of his best games of the season. Scored a goal, was +2, and was on track to play 10+ minutes.
- Feanor

Yep. It was one of the few times I really truly felt sorry for the player on the other team. I mean, it's a rough game, and while I don't wish injuries on people, I usually don't mind when they happen. But I just really felt bad for that poor kid. If the Flyers had demoted Rinaldo at that point and publicly stated he was no longer in their plans, I would have been on board.