1 if you count Sbisa.
- Streit2ThePoint

And even this is highly debatable.

I think the fact that we can even compare an isolated, single move to a whole trend of failure speaks volumes to the former.

edit: but it's still totally over




bro
- BulliesPhan87

That's a good point, and you're right. Bryzgalov was one single move. The defenseman issue is a series of moves that happened over a period of time. But it's still Holmgren's biggest failure in my opinion.

The risk was there the day the contract was signed. The hindsight part comes in after knowing how the player played, and didn't live up to the contract. Making it a mistake.
- MJL

No, I'm right.

Man..I missed all you guys so much...

Season hasn't even started yet and nothing has changed!

Lets drop the puck .

Man..I missed all you guys so much...

Season hasn't even started yet and nothing has changed!

Lets drop the puck .
- opeth_pa

FIGHT ME!

We'll never know for sure.
- BulliesPhan87

wrong. it's covered in teemu's book.

Man..I missed all you guys so much...

Season hasn't even started yet and nothing has changed!

Lets drop the puck .
- opeth_pa

and it never will. ever.

Snider explicitly said that he didn't tell Homer which goalie to choose.


Homer and the pro scouts really ignored all the red flags and went w/ the BNA.
- Tomahawk

another frustrating angle for me is the way lavi handled bob imo really had a huge impact on the whole thing

i am VERY glad mason is working out

Man..I missed all you guys so much...

Season hasn't even started yet and nothing has changed!

Lets drop the puck .
- opeth_pa

Who the hell are you?

That's a good point, and you're right. Bryzgalov was one single move. The defenseman issue is a series of moves that happened over a period of time. But it's still Holmgren's biggest failure in my opinion.
- MJL

fair enough

Who the hell are you?
- mayorofangrytown

wrong. it's covered in teemu's book.
- hammarby31

In a shocking twitst, it turns out it was entirely Bruce Boudreau's fault

edit: hattrick.jpg

Snider explicitly said that he didn't tell Homer which goalie to choose.


Homer and the pro scouts really ignored all the red flags and went w/ the BNA.
- Tomahawk

Did they forget the whole Nabokov discussion at the draft? We had a pick in play and Holmgren was on the phone.

I think the preseason will be pretty telling for how the team plays this year...While I stil think they are a bubble team, i feel that if they listened to the Chief's ultimatum to come to camp in shape we might all be surprised how they play with their skating legs back...

This is really the same team as last year with some holes (Kimmo being the biggest) but a year under Chief's system and year of having played together...

wonder what others think on this one...

I think the preseason will be pretty telling for how the team plays this year...While I stil think they are a bubble team, i feel that if they listened to the Chief's ultimatum to come to camp in shape we might all be surprised how they play with their skating legs back...

This is really the same team as last year with some holes (Kimmo being the biggest) but a year under Chief's system and year of having played together...

wonder what others think on this one...
- JW98FlyerFan

I don't understand how a team that barely made the playoffs last season and missed the season before doesn't seem to have all that many jobs up for grabs. It staggers my imagination.

How can that happen?

Who the hell are you?
- mayorofangrytown

The Anti-Team Negative Dude!
(Im all about Couturier this season..over being down on him like i was last year)

I got to page 2 of the thread today, decided to skip to page 9, and it looked like the same conversation was still happening :/

The Anti-Team Negative Dude!
(Im all about Couturier this season..over being down on him like i was last year)
- opeth_pa

I got to page 2 of the thread today, decided to skip to page 9, and it looked like the same conversation was still happening :/
- eayost

see: every meltzer thread ever.

I guess you could say that, but in the end, you can evaluate them on the same plane as to which affected the team more negatively and for a longer period of time.

So I put the question this way. Which move affected the Flyers worse right now and moving forward? Signing Bryz, or not drafting and developing quality defensemen?

As has been said, signing Bryz was a huge mistake, but was it because of the contract or his play, or both? If he was still with the team and playing well, would it be a mistake? Or is the size of the contract what made it such a bad mistake regardless of how he played.

I didn't like the signing at the time, but I also thought that Bryz was a good goalie at the time of the signing....and so did most everyone else. So in my mind, the term and amount was what made it a mistake. He actually didn't play all that bad, BUT he did play bad for what they were paying him.

We can have 10 more pages of a giant pissing match if we want. But let us not quibble over who killed who! This is supposed to be a happy occasion!

- MBFlyerfan

Signing Bryz at the time was suspect, all things considered. That is more of a reflection of Snider's impatience and the team's "need" to get the big name. As of right now, the mistake doesn't have much of an affect on the team as it stands. Surely it changed the course of the team but whether for the better or worse can never be known. If they don't sign Bryz, maybe the team is worse now. Or if they don't get a CBO maybe they're better. Can't test it.

The Bryz mistake is better served when evaluating Holmgren, Snider, management and not the current situation. The drafting/developing defensemen mistake should be used when evaluating the current situation (and could be used for management's eval too) because it is directly affecting the team at the present.

The bottom line, whether or not the mistake is drafting & developing a balanced team or handing out a truly awful contract that got erased by a mulligan, is did the team learn?

One could say that in the case of drafting & developing Holmgren did eventually correct his course. In the case of the Bryz deal being bad, it's debatable. He immediately used the cap space to sign long term deals with two veterans whose status by the end of the contracts would be questionable.

Mistakes are not a killer, failure to learn from them are
- Jsaquella

This. Spot on Jsaq. Mistakes will always be made but making the same ones over and over is a sign of incompetence. As long as you learn from your failures, you're succeeding.

Per the Flyers, there will be a press conference at the Skate Zone regarding Timonen. Not sure if you heard...

Edit: At 3:30

Philadelphia Flyers @NHLFlyers
The #Flyers will hold a press conference today at 3:30pm at Flyers Skate Zone with GM Ron Hextall and Kimmo Timonen.

EDIT: leight

I don't understand how a team that barely made the playoffs last season and missed the season before doesn't seem to have all that many jobs up for grabs. It staggers my imagination.

How can that happen?
- mayorofangrytown

It is surprising, and with the statement that the vererans jobs are safe unless someone shows something magical is a bit odd too...

Per the Flyers, there will be a press conference at the Skate Zone regarding Timonen. Not sure if you heard...

Edit: At 3:30
- NickTheKid87