Agree 100%, but looking back to 2006, the only 3 D men we picked that had any NHL possibility are Sbisa, MAB (an dI dont think he is coming back) and Oliver L, who is still a work in progress and might not ever crack the big club again. Now the drafting plan changed in 2012, so I was not looking at the talent pool we have now, but the late round picks pre 2012 are just shots in the dark...
- JW98FlyerFan

In 2006 they selected Mike Ratchuk and Dennis Bodrov. The next year they selected Kevin Marshall. The following year Sbisa and MAB.

Unfortunately with D-men.. it takes a good amount of time to find out if they are gonna be true NHL d-men, or if they will fizzle out. That is three draft years and 5 d-men selected prior to the third round. The thought they would pan out. At the time none of them were really a reach. They all had NHL upside, and so it goes with many d-men.. it didnt work out.

Look at the group we have now. Sanheim and Morin were 1sts. Hagg is the only 2nd. The rest of the group were deeper. Sometime you just get lucky. Seems like Ghost was pretty lucky.

But not really... I thought so as well.

In the 8 drafts that Homer ran, he had 1st and or 2nds in 6 of them. Of those 6 drafts he took a d-man in the 1st round 3 time, 2nd round 2 times ( only had a 2nd in 4 drafts). That is 5 d-men selected out of a possible 10 picks.

The later rounds are always gonna be a bit of a crap shoot.. hell outside of the 1st round it is a crap shoot really.
- jak521

First, we need to agree on the data points. He was not GM for the 2006 draft (took over one month into 2006/7 season), so really he ran 2007 through 2013, 7 drafts in total. Am I correct?

Second of all I am agreeing that he reversed course starting in 2013, after the Weber/Suter fiasco the preceding summer, and drafted Morin. Other than that, he drafted only Sbisa in the first round.

So really high draft picks above 3rd round from 2007 - 2012 are only Sbisa, Marshall, Bourdon, and Ghost. Am I missing anyone?

In 2006 they selected Mike Ratchuk and Dennis Bodrov. The next year they selected Kevin Marshall. The following year Sbisa and MAB.

Unfortunately with D-men.. it takes a good amount of time to find out if they are gonna be true NHL d-men, or if they will fizzle out. That is three draft years and 5 d-men selected prior to the third round. The thought they would pan out. At the time none of them were really a reach. They all had NHL upside, and so it goes with many d-men.. it didnt work out.

Look at the group we have now. Sanheim and Morin were 1sts. Hagg is the only 2nd. The rest of the group were deeper. Sometime you just get lucky. Seems like Ghost was pretty lucky.
- jak521

Holmgren didn't run the 2006 draft. He took over one month into the 2006/7 season.

The defensemen they drafted from 2007-2013 were:

Kevin Marshall (2007 Round 2)
Luca Sbisa (2008 Round 1)
MA Bourdon (2008 Round 2)
Simon Bertilsson (2009 Round 3)
Oliver Lauridsen (2009 Round 7)
Nick Luukko (2010 Round 6)
Ricard Blidstrand (2010 Round 7)
Colin Suellentrop (2011 Round 4)
Shayne Gostisbehere (2012 Round 3)
Fredrik Larsson (2012 Round 4)
Reece Willcox (2012 Round 5)
Valeri Vasiliev (2012 Round 7)
Samuel Morin (2013 Round 1)
Robert Hagg (2013 Round 2)
Terrance Amorosa (2013 Round 5)
David Drake (2013 Round 7)

Not much to write home about and a clear focus on drafting more dmen in general since 2012 which could be attributed to what happened in previous drafts.
- NickTheKid87

All that shows me is that they guys they drafted in 2006-2009 they had faith in. They had projected them to be NHLers. The next few drafts they didnt have 1sts or 2nds.. they get Couts (projected to be the #1 for a year and half) falling into their lap.

The defense they projected to be NHLers isnt panning out.. restart the cycle.

Those middle years.. we had next to no picks.. and the Couts deal speaks for itself.

The defensemen they drafted from 2007-2013 were:

Kevin Marshall (2007 Round 2)
Luca Sbisa (2008 Round 1)
MA Bourdon (2008 Round 2)
Simon Bertilsson (2009 Round 3)
Oliver Lauridsen (2009 Round 7)
Nick Luukko (2010 Round 6)
Ricard Blidstrand (2010 Round 7)
Colin Suellentrop (2011 Round 4)
Shayne Gostisbehere (2012 Round 3)
Fredrik Larsson (2012 Round 4)
Reece Willcox (2012 Round 5)
Valeri Vasiliev (2012 Round 7)
Samuel Morin (2013 Round 1)
Robert Hagg (2013 Round 2)
Terrance Amorosa (2013 Round 5)
David Drake (2013 Round 7)

Not much to write home about and a clear focus on drafting more dmen in general since 2012 which could be attributed to what happened in previous drafts.
- NickTheKid87

Who could ever forget the immortal Ricard Blidstrand?!?!

In 2006 they selected Mike Ratchuk and Dennis Bodrov. The next year they selected Kevin Marshall. The following year Sbisa and MAB.

Unfortunately with D-men.. it takes a good amount of time to find out if they are gonna be true NHL d-men, or if they will fizzle out. That is three draft years and 5 d-men selected prior to the third round. The thought they would pan out. At the time none of them were really a reach. They all had NHL upside, and so it goes with many d-men.. it didnt work out.

Look at the group we have now. Sanheim and Morin were 1sts. Hagg is the only 2nd. The rest of the group were deeper. Sometime you just get lucky. Seems like Ghost was pretty lucky.
- jak521

Over those 3 years, they had a grand total of 7 picks prior to the 3rd round. They used over half of them of 4 defensemen (Ratchuk, Bodrov, Marshall, Sbisa), 2 of them were used on Giroux and JvR, and the other on Nodl. As draft picks go, that's not bad actually.

Today in Flyers History: On Sept. 18, 2006, the Flyers signed coach Ken Hitchcock to a three-year contract extension. Hitchcock was fired on Oct. 24, 2006.

Holmgren didn't run the 2006 draft. He took over one month into the 2006/7 season.
- TheGreat28

If we take the 06 draft out and just use 07 and 08, he had 3 draft picks prior to the 3rd round. He used 2 on defensemen and the other on JvR.

Holmgren didn't run the 2006 draft. He took over one month into the 2006/7 season.
- TheGreat28

I know full well... however, when drafting, typically you look at previous years and decide where your strengths are. The Flyers used two 2nd rounders on d-men. Both originally projected to be NHLers at some point.

At one point the Flyers had used the majority of their 1st-3rd rounders on d-men that didnt pan out. Unfortunate, but it wasnt because of lack of drafting. As I said before... 44% of the players drafted under Homer were d-men.

The thing that stings is that their picks didnt pan out.

Over those 3 years, they had a grand total of 7 picks prior to the 3rd round. They used over half of them of 4 defensemen (Ratchuk, Bodrov, Marshall, Sbisa), 2 of them were used on Giroux and JvR, and the other on Nodl. As draft picks go, that's not bad actually.
- jmatchett383

EXACTLY!

They at one point were PROJECTED to be strong defensively in the prospect pool. The next few years they didnt have picks till the 3rd round... then they had Couts fall to them. The one year that they could have done better is 2012, but they got Laughton and Stolarz. The real problem was that the players they did draft high, didnt pan out.

All that shows me is that they guys they drafted in 2006-2009 they had faith in. They had projected them to be NHLers. The next few drafts they didnt have 1sts or 2nds.. they get Couts (projected to be the #1 for a year and half) falling into their lap.

The defense they projected to be NHLers isnt panning out.. restart the cycle.

Those middle years.. we had next to no picks.. and the Couts deal speaks for itself.
- jak521

I don't disagree per se. Some of the forwards worked out and there were trades as well. Plus the Flyers never really sucked so they rarely had high picks in the first round. They have made their share of questionable picks though (Marshall over Subban, Goulbourne in the 3rd round, etc) and the lack of a Cup is due to many things, trading a lot of picks is one and not developing any good dmen is another,

Holmgren didn't run the 2006 draft. He took over one month into the 2006/7 season.
- TheGreat28

Holmgren ran the drafts under Clarke, too. There's a reason Clarkie forgot Giroux's name

I know full well... however, when drafting, typically you look at previous years and decide where your strengths are. The Flyers used two 2nd rounders on d-men. Both originally projected to be NHLers at some point.

At one point the Flyers had used the majority of their 1st-3rd rounders on d-men that didnt pan out. Unfortunate, but it wasnt because of lack of drafting. As I said before... 44% of the players drafted under Homer were d-men.

The thing that stings is that their picks didnt pan out.
- jak521

OK Got it. They drafted. They just did not draft well. Still an organizational failure.

I don't disagree per se. Some of the forwards worked out and there were trades as well. Plus the Flyers never really sucked so they rarely had high picks in the first round. They have made their share of questionable picks though (Marshall over Subban, Goulbourne in the 3rd round, etc) and the lack of a Cup is due to many things, trading a lot of picks is one and not developing any good dmen is another,
- NickTheKid87

I totally agree with MJL on this part... that is all hindsight. Imagine if we had selected Subban and Marshall ended up a stud. That happens in every draft. Look at the Red Wings stars.

As for Goulbourne.. Homer did hit his head.

Holmgren ran the drafts under Clarke, too. There's a reason Clarkie forgot Giroux's name
- Jsaquella

Forgot about that!

Holmgren ran the drafts under Clarke, too. There's a reason Clarkie forgot Giroux's name
- Jsaquella

You could probably say his influence on who they did or did not pick was greater before he got to the GM's chair.


Edit: man, lot of former Flyers on the move this morning. Suellentrop to the 'Yotes camp, Bartulis to Barys, Scott Munroe to Jackets camp, and Rosie Ruzicka to Switzerland.

- Giroux_Is_God

OK Got it. They drafted. They just did not draft well. Still an organizational failure.
- TheGreat28

Or.. and more realistically... the NHL draft outside of the first twenty or so picks, actually is a crap shoot.

They didnt reach. They didnt make questionable picks on the guys they selected (d-men). They just didnt work out. How many mid round forwards worked out?

Hell arguably some of them did work out.

Sbisa played immediately and then was a huge part of the Pronger deal.
Marshall played a bit for the Flyers.
MAB was looking really promising until the concussions.

A ton of poop happened.. and they didnt hit a Homerun. It happens.

Now the opposite is happening. They got Ghost. Hagg falls to the second round. They draft Morin and Sanheim.

Lets see how this looks in 5 years. Because there was some serious excitement about the other group earlier on as well.

Holmgren ran the drafts under Clarke, too. There's a reason Clarkie forgot Giroux's name
- Jsaquella

I was actually going to make that point, and lump the Holmgren/Clark eras into one going back to 1999. This would have added Pitkanen and Woywitka, and Alexander Picard in 3rd round.

But then I didn't want to do the math to add up the picks and calculate percentages.

Whether it is lack of picks, lack of using picks on defensemen high enough in the draft, lack of picking GOOD prospects when they did pick them, or lack of developing those they picked, the long and short of it is that they've done a pretty poor job between 1999 and 2012.

I have much more hope for the 2013 draft under Homer and 2014 draft under Hexy, along with only leftover from 1999-2011 (Ghost). I have even more hope that Hextall will retain and develop these guys.

Or.. and more realistically... the NHL draft outside of the first twenty or so picks, actually is a crap shoot.

They didnt reach. They didnt make questionable picks on the guys they selected (d-men). They just didnt work out. How many mid round forwards worked out?

Hell arguably some of them did work out.

Sbisa played immediately and then was a huge part of the Pronger deal.
Marshall played a bit for the Flyers.
MAB was looking really promising until the concussions.

A ton of poop happened.. and they didnt hit a Homerun. It happens.

Now the opposite is happening. They got Ghost. Hagg falls to the second round. They draft Morin and Sanheim.

Lets see how this looks in 5 years. Because there was some serious excitement about the other group earlier on as well.
- jak521

Look at the other top teams in the league. Some like Boston acquired their top guys (Chara), but many drafted and some drafted very well.

You could probably say his influence on who they did or did not pick was greater before he got to the GM's chair.


Edit: man, lot of former Flyers on the move this morning. Suellentrop to the 'Yotes camp, Bartulis to Barys, Scott Munroe to Jackets camp, and Rosie Ruzicka to Switzerland.
- Tomahawk

Darn. You mean we let all of the supremo talent go?

I actually agree with this 100%.

There was a study done awhile back that found that the rate of goalie picks panning out isn't considerably worse than dmen, but I'd still much rather identify a fully developed Mase/Bernier/Rask/Varly/Bob/Lehtonen/ Schneider/Bishop/etc as a trade target than roll the dice in the draft.
- Tomahawk

I might draft one in the very late rounds, but certainly not with a pick from the first three rounds

OK Got it. They drafted. They just did not draft well. Still an organizational failure.
- TheGreat28

One of the problems was that the didn't have high picks. The didn't have a 1st or second in 2009 or 2010. Same would be true for 2011 but they traded Carter for the #8 pick. You can blame them for not holding onto high picks, but when you're not drafting until the 3rd round, kinda hard to get those stud defensemen.

One of the problems was that the didn't have high picks. The didn't have a 1st or second in 2009 or 2010. Same would be true for 2011 but they traded Carter for the #8 pick. You can blame them for not holding onto high picks, but when you're not drafting until the 3rd round, kinda hard to get those stud defensemen.
- jmatchett383

I might draft one in the very late rounds, but certainly not with a pick from the first three rounds
- mcefalu

This would be how I'd approach it as well. We should both (along with Tomahawk) wait patiently by the phone for Hextall to call and ask for our opinions